What is really real ?

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This topic contains 125 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Mari 3 years, 12 months ago.

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  • #14101

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    Hi Jimbot,

    Thanks for calling by. I skimmed over it very quickly. I have no problem with someone wanting to be a sun worshipper, if they feel so inclined, and I was quite taken by his suggestion to watch sunrise and sunset instead of watching tv… It’s cloudy and raining most of the time where I live.. I think that makes a difference, hahahaha

    I think the world is full of guys like him who want followers and have methods and sell books and dvds and I think that the best thing to do is to be your own wise guru and not follow any of them, but steal anything that you find is useful and works and be very sceptical.

    Obviously the claims don’t hold up against Western biology and medical science, but I am not too troubled about that part, because I know myself that much of what I have found to work doesn’t fit the scientific paradigm, which must be incomplete. But that doesn’t mean every crazy wacky idea is right, either.

    I’m very dubious about his claims. I’d recommend people do internal Qi Gong, which is tried and tested, and get some mastery of that. If you get fairly advanced then you can probe other strange stuff and you’ve always got a secure anchorage to return to.

    I read about a woman who followed one of those ‘we don’t need to eat’ regimes and she just simply did what you’d expect, died from malnutrition and starvation.

    It is said that very highly advanced masters don’t need to take food in the normal sense, because they can exist on vibrating energy, because they are operating on some higher level. Well, that may be the case, or not. I consider myself ‘highly advanced’, hahaha, but I still have to eat sometimes.

    I can’t really advise you, because I have no idea where you are at or what sort of life you lead, and anyway, I don’t like telling anybody what they should or shouldn’t do, but there are basic exercises that draw mind and body into harmony, or you could include terms like spirit and soul into the mix, if you wish, and make for a much happier, more integrated daily existence, which people have been doing for thousands of years now, and which all those generations have added to.

    My favourites are all the related stuff that clusters around yoga, tai chi, qi gong, aikido, and so forth, but I see those as sprouting from sitting meditation, as in zazen. You cultivate that stillness, and then you learn how to stand up and move about, taking the stillness with you. Then it becomes central to your life and who you are and you become stronger, more resilient, peaceful, happier.

    #14122

    Jimbot
    Participant

    Thanks for the helpful and considered reply, ulvfugl.

    It seems as if he’s been checked out by the scientific establishment who have verified some very long fasts with no apparent ill effects, unless there’s some trick involved.   Not sure what to make of it but it’s interesting.

    I’m sure the Taoists would have known about it.  They do speak of very long lives and eating very little in what survived of their old scriptures.

    I was trying to learn about their practices when I found out about Buddhism.  The Buddhists seemed to have the most experience with meditation practice, which I felt I needed to learn.  So that’s what I’ve been working on.  Have tried a little Tai Chi and yoga.   I understand a little about chi energy, how it’s a good practice to store it in the body, but I haven’t focussed on that too much.

    I think both sitting meditation  and walking meditation help with chi, the very slow Burmese style of walking that I’ve been taught in Satipatthana Vipassana.

    Anyway, the dilemma of human existence hasn’t really changed in 2500 years, only maybe more difficult to realize the solution nowadays.

    #14124

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    There’s an esoteric Japanese sect who specialise in long fasts, my memory doesn’t provide the name just this moment, I think they are a sort of blend of Shinto and Tantric Buddhism, and there was an excellent description but I don’t have the bookmark any more.

    But those guys do regularly die. They go into 100 day fasts, and longer, with the acceptance that death is a likely possibility. The description I read, the fellow was provided with one plum and a few sips of water each day by an attendant who visited him in a small stone shelter on the top of a mountain. The bodies of the ones who die appear to become naturally mummified for some reason, and are kept in shrines, and I gather some of them are centuries old and said to have done 500 or 1000 day fasts.

    But I think that is different to living off some sort of solar energy. I think we have a sort of intrinsic natural ability akin to hibernation where the metabolism can be slowed right down almost to nothing. Those guys just sit in deep meditation. They couldn’t do 100 day fasts if they needed to expend energy walking about and doing stuff.

    I’ve fasted  one, two, three weeks. The first few days are very hard and unpleasant, with lots of difficult patches, but after that I found I was settled into it. At the end of three weeks I was only a skeleton and skin and very, very weak. I did take liquids of course.

    But I don’t see much point in any of this. Sure, go for 2 or 3 days without food. That’s a good thing to do, to remind yourself, about a whole lot of things, it’s good for your body, and think about the poor people who have no choice but to be starving.

    But extreme austerities, well, I am a sort of shaman. I have, and do, endure extreme hardships and suffering. But there is no virtue in masochism.

    The way I see it, one wants to gain insight into one’s own being. This means paying very close attention to what one is, watching. Just by doing that, one automatically learns.

    So if you do these exercises, tai chi, etc, and notice things ‘Oh wow, that’s amazing’, then comes the problem, remembering that, remembering to do them 🙂

    Loads of good links here

    http://neigong.net/

    #14134

    Mari
    Participant

    Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it. ~André Gide

    #14143

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    Twaddle.

    What use are such clichés ? They are memes that stop you thinking for your self. You could learn all the wise sayings on the internet, tens of thousands of them, off by heart, and repeat them, and you would be none the wiser, still a stupid person wasting their time.

    Wtf is ‘truth’ ? Is that statement ‘true’ ? Presumably Gide claims to have found ‘truth’. Who cares.

    Instead of looking to authority to provide you with answers and ‘clever’ second-hand sayings, be your own wise person and teacher.

    #14153

    Jimbot
    Participant

    Thanks for sharing some more of your wisdom, ulvfugl.

    From what I’ve read about HRM ( there was a long article posted  a few years ago titled Sunshine Superman, but maybe the site is gone)  he isn’t suggesting that anyone start fasting.    Apparently what happens is that by gradually developing and increasing the sun gazing practice, the desire for food gradually decreases, as well as various health benefits that accrue.  So all it requires is to do the practice and see what happens.  He discovered it in 4000 yr old Vedic scriptures and decided to revive it, so maybe the Taoists learned from them.

    Of course it rains about 50% of the time here on the Wet Coast of British Columbia.  A retirement project for me maybe in a few years to give it a try and see what the results are.   Would have to head south or east for the sun.  I haven’t tried fasting more than a day.

    On meditation retreats we don’t eat after 12 noon but still get two meals so it’s very easy to do.  I had the amazing opportunity to practice under the guidance of a very senior and remarkable teacher for ten weeks and even to try wearing the robes.   His teacher was Mahasi Sayadaw, who was a noted Burmese Theravadin monk and great teacher. He revived the method named after him and adapted it for the modern age perhaps.   Apparently the unbroken lineage of teachers goes right back to the Buddha.  Perhaps this will be the greatest of humanity’s treasures of knowledge that will be lost when it all goes away,

     

    #14159

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    Ok, I see. Well, I’d say it’d be something interesting to investigate scientifically, for someone to go and measure lots of indicators and see if there are measurable effects. Proceed with caution 🙂

    You’re obviously quite sensible. I wasn’t certain from your initial enquiry whether you’d fall for the sales spiel, sort of thing. People come here, because it’s a sacred mountain with a magnetic anomaly at the top, and sleep overnight to experience special dreams, and at one time were investigating that ‘scientifically’ but, you know, if you are not sensitive and aware of your inner being already, and you take dope and sleep in a very unusual place, then you are GOING TO HAVE weirdness, nothing to do with it being ‘sacred’, and they see magical earth lights in the sky, but those are the lighthouses for the shipping up and down the coast that reflect off the clouds… people are easily carried away by their own imaginings…

    Yes, I know about the Theravada tradition. It’s disparaged by the Mahayana, as being inferior, and the details of the split between the two branches is fascinating.

    I take bits and pieces from all sorts of traditions, whatever I find useful.

    I train myself all the time, for example, if I walk, I decide to give about 80% attention to the soles of my feet and keep it there, all the time, until I return. Another occasion, I do it for my knee joints, or for the sounds that I hear, and so on. I’m always trying to more fully occupy my nervous system, so to speak, and to strengthen and expand my consciousness, and to look within and see if there are any gaps or blanks that need filling up with awareness. And I keep this going without any break, second to second, but at the same time, just letting it flow, without interference, so it’s quite natural and not any effort. I’m not struggling or working or trying, it’s just pleasant and enjoyable sort of paying attention and being amused when I lose it.

    That’s another thing, letting go of it all and getting lost in whatever happens, fantasies or streams of ideas and memories. So long as they don’t take over and submerge you and carry you away completely.  I think we are very complicated, I listen to what’s coming into my inner world all the time, sometimes it is very vivid and needs my full attention, I have very rich daydreams and night dreams, all kinds of stuff, that I have to filter and process. Some of it is tremendously meaningful and important and some of it is just junk and noise.

    People always seem to be looking for exotic and extraordinary stuff, but I think the most ordinary and mundane is more than enough once you start to look at it closely.

    #14160

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    My suggestion is, that doing these kind of mindfulness exercises, combined with the jhana meditations from the Theravada tradition, one can strengthen or develop what some people call the Subtle Body, (but I’m quite happy to equate with the word soul, although that word has been very debased and corrupted, it did once have a meaning for some people long ago, that has been lost.)

    And then you can inhabit this Subtle Body, which is quite a different way of being to what most people have.

    http://kheper.net/topics/subtlebody/correspondences.html

    #14569

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    At Multiverse Impasse, a New Theory of Scale

    Mass and length may not be fundamental properties of nature, according to new ideas bubbling out of the multiverse.

    http://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta/20140818-at-multiverse-impasse-a-new-theory-of-scale/

    #14584

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster
    #15029

    Mari
    Participant

    #15031

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    Chomsky is a Zionist and apologist for Israel.

    #15034

    Mari
    Participant

    Ah, we’re probably talking about different Chomskies

    #15036

    Mari
    Participant

    Rule 2: “Everyone is afraid of being a sucker”

    Fears of being a sucker (a “fryer” in Yiddish and now Hebrew) are an explicit part of Israeli political discourse, but are just as evident in the Palestinian approach to peace making. Both sides feel that concessions they have made in the past have not been reciprocated, and are therefore determined not to take the first step this time around. Such worries prevent the Israelis in particular from coming to terms with the reality that since they hold the majority of the cards, they will inevitably have to make the greater concessions. And the West Bank barrier—now as much psychological as physical—means that most Israelis can ignore the morally questionable realities of occupation.

    http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/features/there-may-never-be-peace-israel-palestinians-jerusalem

    #19449

    Mari
    Participant

    Quantum Mechanics When You Close Your Eyes
    Posted on May 25, 2012 by Sean Carroll
    Here’s a fun thing that has been zipping around the internets this week: a collection of “back of the envelope problems” put together by Edward Purcell. Hours of fun reading if you’re the kind of person who likes to spend their leisure time doing word problems (and I mean that in the best possible way).

    One of Purcell’s problems is labeled “Electromagnetic energy in your eyeball,” and it concludes with a provocative (and true) observation. The problem asks the reader to calculate the total energy in all the photons that are inside your eyes at any one moment. Roughly speaking — which is the point, since we’re doing back-of-the-envelope problems — these photons come from one of two sources: the visible light from the outside world that enters your pupil, and the infrared light that is emitted as blackbody radiation from your eye itself, since you are an object at body temperature. Purcell suggests that you compare the amount of energy from each source.

    And the answer is: there is much more electromagnetic energy in your eye at any one moment from the infrared radiation you’re emitting yourself, than the pittance of visible light you get from the outside world. Between 100,000 and a million times as much. Which raises a question we may never have thought to ask: why does it get dark when we close our eyes? The amount of electromagnetic radiation hitting our retinas hardly changes!

    http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2012/05/25/quantum-mechanics-when-you-close-your-eyes/

    #19451

    Mari
    Participant

    “Increased photon emission from the head while imagining light”
    If you think hard about a bright light whilst sitting in a dark room, will your head emit photons? Recent research from B.T. Dotta, K.S. Saroka and M.A. Persinger at Laurentian University, Ontario, Canada, suggests the answer maybe yes. The team has, for the first time, found that “increased photon emission from the head while imagining light in the dark is correlated with changes in electroencephalographic power.”

    http://www.improbable.com/2014/02/27/increased-photon-emission-from-the-head-while-imagining-light/

    #19461

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    Thanks. Both very interesting.

    #20308

    Mari
    Participant

    Claims that some form of consciousness persists after our bodies die and decay into their constituent atoms face one huge, insuperable obstacle: the laws of physics underlying everyday life are completely understood, and there’s no way within those laws to allow for the information stored in our brains to persist after we die. If you claim that some form of soul persists beyond death, what particles is that soul made of? What forces are holding it together? How does it interact with ordinary matter?

    Everything we know about quantum field theory (QFT) says that there aren’t any sensible answers to these questions. Of course, everything we know about quantum field theory could be wrong. Also, the Moon could be made of green cheese.

    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2011/05/23/physics-and-the-immortality-of-the-soul/

    I guess I’m soulless. And I don’t mind. 🙂

    #20310

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    The arrogance and hubris of those scientists is just staggering.

    the laws of physics underlying everyday life are completely understood

    Yes. Lord what’s his name said the same thing, 100 years ago, in a speech. The end of physics. They could pack up because they knew all the answers.

    Then came Einstein and Quantum physics. Carroll is a fool. Gravity is not understood, electricity is not understood.

    Of course, Scientific American is not a serious scientific publication, it’s a popular entertainment magazine, catering for the dumbed down American masses, the ones who buy into the American Legoland/Disneyf-ied version of science, which is sold by corporate media as part of the divide and rule strategy to keep war against the religious fanatics going, by the ruling elite.

    So denial of ‘soul’ is part of that propaganda war, and Carroll is shilling for the cause, because that’s what pays his wages.

    Fucking moron. Before you can deny or affirm ‘soul’ you’d need to define what you’re talking about, which requires some knowledge of etymology, linguistics, philosophy, theology, and more, as well as neuro-science, physiology, physics, and the history of science.

    There’s huge gaps in the understanding of what we are, and all that his blog post demonstrates is what a small-minded, lightweight, limited individual he is.

    Look, it’s established that there is quantum information stored in the genome,that is not physical, not visible, not observable as chemistry.

    If a plant finds that the information it has inherited from it’s parents is not serving it well, as it finds itself in a particular situation, where it is growing, it can ignore the genetic information that is in the chemistry of the chromosomes, and refer to that quantum information, which holds information from EARLIER generations. It’s nowhere to be seen in the physical,observable chemistry.

    This is standard orthodox science, on a lecture from 4 or 5 years ago, by a Malaysian woman, I think, I forget her name.

    So, if plants can store information from previous generations, in a ‘non-material’ way, where is it stored ? It’s called ‘quantum information’, it’s in some weird form that we don’t even know how to think about.

    There is no a priori reason to EXCLUDE the possibility of some means, along those lines, which might explain a whole swathe of the odd anomalous stuff that people insist, anecdotally, that they experience.

    To EXCLUDE the possibility, just because it doesn’t fit the crude Cartesian Paradigm that has to deny anything spiritual, is just ignorant. Scientism, not science.

    Btw, thanks for the invitation to join your Google circle, but I decline the offer, I don’t regard Google as a friendly force, it’s thoroughly evil, just a disguise for the NSA/CIA, and although I cannot avoid them, I don’t like to connive, collobarate or cooperate if I can avoid the fuckers. Same for Facebook, etc.

    http://www.newsweek.com/assange-google-not-what-it-seems-279447

    https://duckduckgo.com/

    #20319

    Mari
    Participant

    In other words, even if the soul were only aiming to influence a calcium channel for 10 milliseconds, the bare minimum it would need to, it wouldn’t have nearly enough quantum ‘wiggle room’ to make a difference (the longer the time, the less room.)

    Some have argued that even tiny quantum nudges could nonetheless control brain activity, because of the butterfly effect: a small change might lead, indirectly, to a big one, in the complex system of the brain.

    However, Clarke squashes this idea too. He says that the brain is actually very good at not being influenced by tiny changes. It has to be, because thermal noise – the random movement of atoms, due to temperature – is constantly throwing up tiny changes, and this noise would drown out any plausible Heisenberg-based effects:

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2013/12/22/quantum-theory-wont-save-soul/#.VSQNJPmsUlI

    Physicist Murray Gell-Mann coined the phrase “quantum flapdoodle” to refer to the misuse and misapplication of quantum physics to other topics. wiki quantum mysticism

    …flapdoodle… mmm, nice word 🙂

    btw, did not know I had invited you anywhere. The Gplus’ ways are inscrutable 🙂

    btw, why do I have a sense of humour, and you not? Maybe another mysterious quantum effect? 😛

    Nevermind, no point arguing about this. Neither you or me know what we are talking about. I’m onto Li Bai, the poet of wine and the moon…

    #20321

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    Those people, like Carroll, are morons. They are not in search of ‘truth’, they are partisan advocates for the ideology into which they have been indoctrinated.

    What they are doing is trying to demolish a straw man of their own invention.

    The trouble is, that most people like them, have a very narrow education, they have an absolute religious devotion to SCIENTISM, that all things can be explained by science, that science is the only valid way of understanding human existence, being, and that PHYSICS is the only real subject that matters, all other branches of science and intellectual subjects are rather trivial afterthoughts.

    They are really no different to Evangelical Literalist Fundamentalist christians who believe every word in the Bible came from the mouth of God, a Super-Daddy up in the sky.

    So there is not much point in trying to enter into any sort of discussion with them, is there. I don’t think that they are even consciously aware of how prejudiced and indoctrinated they are, because their education is so poor, they only see things through their narrow reductionist slot.

    Before making such ludicrous statements about ‘the soul influencing calcium channels’ that guy (and YOU) have to define what you MEAN by the word that you are using, that word SOUL.

    If you cannot DO that, then you are talking nonsense and rubbish, because you have no idea what you are talking ABOUT.

    I mean, these people struggling to argue against the existence of ‘a soul’, is some sort of tragic, sick joke !

    Their whole paradigm, methodology, belief system, their whole subject, PHYSICS, as derived from Descartes, Newton, et al, has been built upon the fundamental premise that THERE IS NO SUCH THING, as a soul, or spirit, or any ‘non-material’ force, involved, at all, because all of that area was handed over to the CHURCH.

    So, it’s kinda insane now, to be using a mechanistic manner of thinking, talking about calcium channels, for fuck’s sake, to address something which is entirely beyond the scope of such thinking, for example BEAUTY !

    If they actually had a better broader education, and grasped that philosophy must precede science, then they might get somewhere. But it is hopeless, because the people who fund education do not want people who fucking THINK, they want physicists who are glorified technicians, to build fighter jets and nuclear power stations and computer chips.

    Instead of reductionist thinking that posits that everything starts from physical matter – which is obviously WRONG, and an obsolete paradigm, as shown by all the quantum weirdness – they should scrap that, and begin from the position that everything starts from consciousness. We are human beings, and our consciousness is the primary function. Everything else stems from that.

    But most people are far too dumb, or far too blinded by ideology, to grasp any of this.

    #20322

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    I deleted the email from google+ and I’m not going to bother to retrieve it, it stated clearly that you invited me to become a member of your circle, also gmail gives me a list of your other members and what the latest stuff you have posted is, etc.

    I consider these intrusions into privacy and distribution of private info without consent quite outrageous, and its a creeping, tip of the wedge thing, to get us all trained to handing over our private lives to global surveillance.

    The automated NSA data systems can watch how all these circles respond by sampling them statistically, and map how their propaganda and warfare is working out, in real time, and target groups that they wish to influence. It’s all extremely nasty.

    #20323

    Mari
    Participant

    Do you seriously believe we have immortal souls? Jeez…

    By second thought, you have recently declared that irrationality is the new cutting edge of being, so I assume it is expected…

    Please don’t get all fired up, I have a headache

    And your off that Gplus thingy now

    #20324

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    I am going to ignore that comment.

    I have written at length concerning the soul, in recent blog posts, and elsewhere, for years.

    I know very well that you make idiotic comments that you know will annoy me, merely to be provocative and get yourself attention.

    I don’t find it interesting or amusing or worth spending my time responding.

    #20382

    AmyBe
    Participant

    I have not been breathing or meditating..

    except I think I have been..or maybe I wasn’t but my soul was. 😉

    anyway, I’m not sure where to put this or where it goes..but it does make me wonder about so many damn things it’s not even funny anymore..

    I tried so hard
    to understand
    but it was too funny
    for me to laugh
    so I cried instead.

    that’s a peurile juvenile poem I wrote when I was a teen I think, and even if it seems trite, I think it’s really pretty profound in it’s own way.

    anyway, here is an article..

    EXCLUSIVE: Revealed, the terminally ill man set to be first to undergo the world’s first full HEAD transplant pioneered by doctor branded ‘nuts’

    Valery Spiridonov says he is ready to put his trust in Dr Sergio Canavero
    30-year-old computer scientist was born with Werdnig-Hoffman disease
    Genetic muscle-wasting disorder has left him seriously disabled since birth
    New body of city of Vladimir native would be taken from braindead donor
    But 2016 target for operation is ‘pure fantasy’, say Dr Canavero’s critics

    A man with a fatal medical condition has spoken exclusively to MailOnline about how he is set to become the first person to undergo a head transplant and hopes it could be as soon as next year.

    Valery Spiridonov says he is ready to put his trust in controversial surgeon Dr Sergio Canavero who claims he can cut off his head and attach it to a healthy body.

    Mr Spiridonov, 30, a computer scientist from Russia, said: ‘My decision is final and I do not plan to change my mind.’

    As a lifelong sufferer of the rare genetic Werdnig-Hoffman muscle wasting disease, he says he wants the chance of a new body before he dies.

    the entire article, such as it is, can be found here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3029376/Russian-volunteer-head-transplant-operation-Valery-Spiridonov-says-no-choice-undergo-7-5million-procedure-controversial-Italian-surgeon-Dr-Sergio-Canavero.html

    I had a son who was born with Werdnig-Hoffamn. He was born December 25th, 1989, and died and died less than six months later on June 11, 1990.

    i really don’t have anything else to post.

    #20383

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    I don’t have patience with any of this.

    The most pampered, privileged people who have ever existed, in the entire history of the human species, now, in the west, USA in particular, but also Britain, Norway, Europe, whine and complain and wallow in self-pity, about their loss and hardship…

    How have they got all that wealth, how do they keep it ? By slaughtering hundreds of millions of OTHER people, stealing their stuff, destroying whole ethnic groups, who vanish forever, whole lifestyles are annihilated, all the other life forms of the world are vanishing…

    People who just want to live simply with a goat, and grow vegetables, get driven off their land by soldiers so that a dam can be built to make profits for corporations and bankers to keep the standard of living high in the ‘developed’ world, where some self-indulgent twit wants to have his head cut off and glued onto a new body, so he can live a bit longer…

    MILLIONS of people die in the Congo so people here can have their iPhones and laptops, I wonder how they and their relatives feel about this story, how the people of Yemen and Syria feel about it.

    It’s not ‘science’, it’s a mad doctor with a fetish for fame and publicity, it’s the application of surgical techniques, how many ‘ordinary’ people could be helped with all that money, with quite common illnesses, who die, all those babies who die from lack of basic simple cheap treatments, because they get dehydrated, etc.

    I find it quite grotesque and gruesome.

    But, it’s a waste of time trying to explain. The masses of humans are morons. they all want MORE and they destroy life on Earth to get it, so that we all become extinct.

    #20399

    AmyBe
    Participant

    thank you. I have been so conflicted and torn on this, but one of the things I was thinking (besides that I would have literally have given my very soul to the devil if it would have saved my son’s life at the time if that had been possible) is that while I hold nothing against this man,and really do wish him the best and don’t think that ‘ethics’ alone should be what stops him….I do, however, think the entire idea of MONEY being what determines who gets what to be repellent and abhorrent. The way our entire culture is set up around money as the be all and end all that determines who lives and who dies..

    no wonder we live on a dying planet..

    and I don’t think it would even be this way if we would just take care of each other.

    It’s been 25 years, and I am not supposed to miss my son or mourn for him? I think I spent too many years running from that pain to be able to do it anymore. But dear god..I don’t think this is a solution at all..not one bit.

    #20400

    AmyBe
    Participant

    there is so much life here that is so precious and beautiful…even while it is ugly and dying and decaying..THAT is beautiful too..

    and to want to ‘transform’ it all into some mad ‘transhumanist’ vision because we have been destroying what is real and lovely right in front of us..

    that is worse than death I am beginning to believe, and not a soulution at all.

    #20401

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    I don’t really see why that man isn’t satisfied, that with the marvels of modern support he’s already given, he already gets a bonus of having some life, and then be very grateful for that, and die with some grace and dignity.

    But obviously, he’s not that sort of person. He thinks he’s entitled to have whatever he wants.

    Other people, on this planet, at the moment, would just like to have enough food for some kids, and be safe from bombs and bullets, but they can’t have that.
    It would be cheap and simple and easy to give them that, really. No new inventions or anything required. But it’s not glamorous, and doesn’t suit the agendas of powerful people to do it.

    The hospitals of the world are full of small children who get told that they have serious illnessness and will probably die, and they are brave and accept it.

    I really don’t like that man, and don’t find sympathy for him. The doctor, even worse. I can’t stand those people.

    Regarding yourself, and your own suffering, re losing a child.

    Look, if I put my shaman’s hat on, I am beyond all of this. As I said to you before, EVERYONE gets injured. The world, this material world, is a harsh and jagged place. It always has been. For a million years, we, as a species, have been being born into it, and being eaten by diseases and wild animals, and getting killed by accidents.

    Everything is eating everything else, all the time. That’s how the system is structured. Nobody knows WHY, perhaps that is the only possible way that is can work. If it wasn’t for that system, we would not be here at all.

    Everybody gets injured, some badly, some fatally, some recover. Generally, people who have had a harder life are much nicer, more appreciative, wiser, than those who have never really suffered any setbacks. It’s not a solid rule, but it’s often the case. The spoiled brats are shallow, thoughtless, selfish, nauseating, callous and insensitive. People who have endured and overcome great hardships know what matters and what doesn’t.

    I know how to heal many things, because I have done it for myself. My own mother lost twin babies, not something she often spoke about, they lived about six weeks, she told me it was the worst thing that ever happened to her, it left her with a lot of anger toward some of the medical staff, whom she blamed for making mistakes and not caring for them properly.

    I’d never attempt to tell her how she should deal with that grief and pain. I’m not a mother. I look at these things in a more generalised fashion. It’s happening to someone, somewhere, every second that passes.

    I don’t know why you’d expect to get over or forget tremendous trauma, as if it never happened to you.

    Why be afraid of it, or run away from it.

    I already tried to explain all this to you before.

    The way I see it, like a tree that has branches ripped off in a storm, you get these great injuries in life, that leave gaping wounds. So, it takes time, and the way to do it, is to grow a new self, as I tried to describe, where you are safe and secure and renewed. Then, you go back, from that new self, when it is strongly established, and gradually heal your old wounds.

    It’s not that they vanish, but you tend them very tenderly, and take good care of them, just as you would the most fragile and sensitive thing that you can imagine, a baby bird, or an injured human child, for that matter. Wrap them up and soothe them. Bless them with loving kindness.

    You have to forgive yourself for mistakes you made, let all the messy stuff resolve its self. Stop all the blame and attacking yourself for crap that can’t be changed, let it all go, and work hard on growing ‘the new me’ that is here and now.

    But it’s all up to you. It’s nothing to do with me, is it. I have my own life, my own past, my own problems. I just explain to you how you can go about it, if you want to do it. I don’t even care if you do it or not. Either you are strong enough, determined enough, to do it, or you are not. I do not care, it’s none of my business.

    You talked a lot about Guan Yin, or Kanzeon, in the Japanese version, or in the original buddhist version, she was a male disciple of the buddha, anyway – as a personification of compassion.

    But I think wisdom has to come first, before compassion, that is, ‘seeing clearly into the nature of things’.

    So, if all things are born, and all things die, then it is inevitable that they will suffer. It’s just inherent in the nature of the deal, and unavoidable.

    So, although the suffering can be reduced, and the stupid behaviour which causes additional easily avoidable suffering could, in theory, be eliminated, we’d still always be stuck with suffering, just because it’s the nature of existence, that everything is always changing.

    But what you can do – according to the buddhist formula, and other beliefs too, although they’ll structure the recipe differently – is to find the thing that doesn’t change. and thus sort of rescue yourself, from this wretched condition.

    So then, having found peace and sanctity, yourself, you are a much stronger person, and have the wisdom and insight to be helpful and a resource, compassionate, towards others. Because you can give something TO them, you are not needing anything FROM them.

    But it’s like rescuing drowning people, unless you know how to swim and to save yourself, then they’ll just drag you down with them, which is all a bit pointless, even if your motive and intentions were the best.

    #20406

    AmyBe
    Participant

    yes..learning how to swim. I always ‘knew’ how to swim, have no memory of not being able to do so. I did get told by my mother that when I was very little, around two or three, I sneaked out of the apartment we were living in at the time and went swimming on my own at the pool, where they found me, paddling around happily in the deep end. I do know that I have always loved the water, and found floating in it very soothing and healing, and when I focus on relaxing, I picture all the times I was able to float in the warm waters in Jamaica, too.

    I am learning something new everyday, so I guess that is what keeps me going these days anyway..like this..which also I suppose fits under the heading of “what is really real” but with a question mark?

    the tendency is for technology to leave the screens of desktop computers and to become embedded in cities, architectures, spaces, objects and bodies [5]. Turning all of these into their augmented versions: fluid hybrids of flesh/concrete/plastic and information/communication

    This change brings forth a progressive rise in strategic importance of emotional, empathic and relational domains, with entire economic models named after “attention” and “relationship”, and with the themes of freedom of expression and of the dissemination and sharing of knowledge and information becoming thefocal nodes for innovation, both social and economic.In this scenario the ephemeral, immaterial domains of emotion and relation can become neo-materialbuilding blocks for bodies and cities.We wish to document here a research process in which this mutation of the human body has been explicited using wearable technologies that allow individuals to capture, identify, represent and visualize emotions (their, other individuals’, or calculated emotions of groups of individuals), turning them into a porous, communicational, visual, emergent skin

    http://www.academia.edu/324268/Wearing_emotions_physical_representation_and_visualization_of_human_emotions_using_wearable_technologies

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