Prospecting and perspectives

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This topic contains 29 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  ulvfugl 3 years, 12 months ago.

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  • #19837

    AmyBe
    Participant

    I don’t have words of wisdom to impart, and I am not enlightened, but I can share where I am at today and if it helps someone, then that is the goal, and the first conscious goal in me is to help. I am okay with being imperfect, everything in the world is. But I feel so raw and open and filled with emotion that the plasticity and fakeness and secrets is something I find hard to take, and react in ways that I judge myself for and others judge me for, and that is difficult when I am practicing letting go of judgement and being real about who I am, and my feelings are real. It is popular to denigrate feelings and emotions in today’s world. To lock them up and deny them and tell them to go away and that they have no place or that they should be covered up. Or that feelings can only be acted on in a certain way or expressed in a certain way.

    the Wiccan Rede says “an it harm none, do as ye will”. To me personally that means to first try not to hurt anybody, including yourself, and to take that into account and then to be Real. And to me Reality means acknowledging feelings and I also know that according to many, feelings and emotions have no place in enlightenment or meditation,or that there are only certain ways to do things, according to rituals and traditions laid out by others. Instead, to sift through, to prospect through it all and find the nuggets of truth in all the grit and debris, and to realize that no one place or person has it, but that others can share there perspectives on what truth is..

    To me truth is what I am feeling today. Feelings and emotions are raw and real, and part of the self that is, the self I allow myself to be and express. I am insane, you see. Totally certifiably insane. So I take that and run with it and make it a joy and something to if not celebrate, to be what frees me from even having to think in traditional ways, being insane means no one expects it of me in the first place.

    So, being insane, I have this crazy idea that if I can somehow sift through all the detritus and find the flakes of what is valuable, if I can find a way to get to a place inside of peace and calm myself, then I can share what I have with others. So in what I have been reading, for me personally, I find a great deal to follow and reach for in Quan Yin, in a Goddess who came down into hell where the beings got there because the wheel of karma said they deserved to be there, and didnt’ care about that, she only cared about easing the suffering of those beings. I am not interested in karma balance, I am interested in karma release. I am wanting to find a way to get there that I can somehow share with others that are imprisoned and oppressed around the world, and if there is something ‘instant’ or that can be shared like that, where my beingness is helping someone in pain halfway around the world or right next to me, then that’s what I want to do, because I’m crazy like that. I want to get so fucking enlightened I can boddisattva that shit and come down and help others.

    So that’s a dilemma, then, isn’t it. By desiring it so bad, I don’t get there. So I breathe. I breathe in and breathe out, and I am 49 years old and have been doing it my whole life, but still, I need to learn how to breathe. It doesn’t come easy for me. I sometimes think of Eric Garner and his last words..”I can’t breathe”..I want to get to a place inside where I can not think of that and I don’t..but I still breathe..

    See, also being crazy, there is a lot to think about, a lot of different lenses and perspectives to which to look at things through, and some of those lenses can be through the eyes of a child, too. But none of them want to harm, all of them want more than the dying world they were created into, willy-nilly, but here we are. Here I am. Here I be.

    So I breathe. In and out, and try to go from the gut, and try to let go of the fact that all through the day the fears and worries and self judgements and shame is right there, seeking to overwhelm me. I read and learn and try to absorb it and sometimes need to read the same thing a number of times to truly let it sink it, to let all the viewpoints of myself know that this is helpful, let’s all work on this together. Let’s make the cacophony a harmony, if it cannot be a solo.

    #19838

    AmyBe
    Participant

    of course in the meantime, I’m just a common ordinary frail human being making a lot of mistakes and hurting people without meaning to.

    and I breathe.

    #19843

    AmyBe
    Participant

    from private correspondence:
    ……………………………..
    …………….I feel a slight twinge of responsibility, having got you into that standing meditation thing. It is, or can be, very potent, so I hope you are coping okay.

    I just made it up, from what I have learned from sitting meditation, and other techniques, but obviously, over the previous thousands of years that people have
    been doing this stuff, many others will have had the same idea, and no doubt taken
    much more care and trouble to develop it.

    So this would seem to be an authentic ancient Chinese thing here

    4, Relaxation is preferable to nervousness in the standing meditation.

    When you are doing standing meditation, you must be relaxed the whole time from the beginning to the end. You should never be tense. When you are doing standing meditation the true Qi has been activated to its ultimate, therefore the Qi is very strong and travels very fast in your body. If you are tense, some parts of your body may be blocked. As a result, the Qi will accumulate there and block the channels and will not disperse for a long time, and you will feel uncomfortable or in pain. If you are too tense perhaps the Qi circulating in your body cannot be gathered back into dan tian even though you want to shou gong (finish). So, to be relaxed is of utmost importance. You should not worry at all. Let the spontaneous movements happen naturally and enjoy yourself; then you will feel very comfortable and your disease will be cured and your health improved.

    5. Adopt a positive attitude toward hallucinations.

    You should have a right attitude toward hallucinations. During the circulation and change of Qi (vital energy) while practicing qigong, very often hallucinations will appear. This is because your channels are open and you are receiving information from the Universe through the open channels. You can accept the information that makes you happy and comfortable. This is called ‘positive information’. For instance, you may feel that you are growing taller and bigger; you may see brightness in front of you; you may see beautiful scenes; you may hear wonderful music or even smell the fragrance of flowers. All these information is good for you both physically and mentally.

    On the other hand, some ‘negative information’ might appear, which, of course, is not good for health. But do not be frightened because such things happen. Just shake your head and say “shi” and immediately they will disappear. There is nothing to be afraid of. Go on with your qigong practice and you will succeed in the end. Upon finishing, if you wish to continue practicing, choose another location of better environment. Do not continue at that same place.

    6. Be comfortable and happy about the time and frequency of practice.

    Consider the time you will spend practicing meditation. You might give yourself an order: “I am going to do this for 30 minutes”. Then, when 30 minutes have passed, the Qi will naturally come to a halt. As to how many times you should practice eash day, it all depends on whether or not you feel comfortable and happy. Do not exhaust yourself.

    The 5 routines and standing meditation complement one another. They should be practiced con-currently. By so doing, your health will be enhanced and sickness cured.

    http://cscq.webs.com/standingmeditation.htm

    #19844

    AmyBe
    Participant

    from correspondence, on my part:

    …………………………………”the flood of tears continues, but I find myself much better able to cope with them, as well as all the other emotions. I am more in tune to the world, not a good thing right now. I am finding twitches in my back too, and have been reading some rather interesting literature, not just the usual conspiracy stuff, or if it is, it has really been a shock to my system, which is a GOOD thing.

    I also realized part of my issue with meditation was that as soon as I relaxed, another me would pop in, so that is okay, there is a lot of me here, and we walk and we stand, and are learning to meditate. Can’t do it nearly as long as I would like, it’s almost like ‘sneaking’ a meditation, I don’t know how to explain it any other way. I am ‘not meditatating’ meditating.

    I also found a fascinating film that showed to me the final proof for my mind that yes, the moon landing was faked. Given that the footage of that is my FIRST ever memory..I am learning finally once and for all not to trust my memories, but to trust myself and my heart.”

    and……
    “the visuals I give myself sometime are of a rainbow lotus wavy thing above my head..that is reaching out like sensors..yeah that’s weird..”

    and..
    “no ONE person or one entity even has the truth, and no one side is right or wrong, but the universe is definitely bigger than I was told it was, and it is in a grain of sand too.”

    #19845

    AmyBe
    Participant

    from correspondence, highly edited:

    ……”I may revisit that Russian orthodox madness stuff, because it’s a unique thing, and fascinating, but I’m following so many diverse ideas at the moment, with what I am writing… I don’t have time to investigate..”

    {a link was provided, and this is a link from that link that has some rather interesting articles, some of which needs getting back to by moi, a small treasure trove to return to}

    http://www.slavdom.com/index.php?id=7

    #19846

    AmyBe
    Participant

    and this is what I think might perhaps be useful to others as well as myself, and for that reason, I guess this was the entire point of this thread I started, so here it is:

    from private correspondence:

    “look, regarding you and me, all I was telling you, was, from my role as a sort of shamanic healer, was how you can heal yourself and make yourself whole. Regardless of whatever the original causes of the trauma.

    That might be child abuse, or torture, or mental illness, or all sorts of things, of various degrees of ‘badness’, but, as I see it, the remedy is all the same, and that is, to grow a new, healthy, self, over the old damaged one, and when that is achieved, you go back inside yourself and gently and slowly start to heal the horrible things that have happened and sort everything out.

    Every time that it gets too much, you quickly return to the new healthy self that you made and are making.

    That new healthy self is done by spending a short time, once, or several times, a day, doing that standing meditation technique.

    There’s nothing easy about this, it’s hellish and very tough, and means being incredibly brave and determined and persevering and being very kind to yourself as well as very disciplined and strong.

    But the good part is that it works, when nothing else does, and after weeks and months you become very strong and a whole and new person who understands stuff that nobody else understands, and you can be proud because YOU did it, and YOU did it on your own, without having to turn to some crappy ‘therapist’ or ‘guru’ or other formula with a book and dvd to sell.

    So, I just sort of handed you that, as a helpful gift, in passing, from my life to your life.

    It don’t really mean more than that…. you still have to do it all on your own.

    Those people, the MkUltra lot, have got to be the most evil and despicable filth imaginable. But there is no need to get dragged down into all that crap, on their level, is there.

    There are people who revel in everything that is repulsive and horrible, and try to shock and disgust, and horrify. It’s quite an interesting thing to consider.

    If you think of the two poles, the two extremes, the yin and yang, the most beautiful, sublime and pure, and the most ugly, cruel, horrible and depraved. Those two aspects of human beings. They both exist, in the human experience.

    I visit both of them, to check them out, to get the feel, as it were.

    In the christian paradigm, they are thought of as God/Jesus and the Devil/Satan, the polarity of good and evil.

    But I’m not a christian. I don’t think that analysis, or formula, works or is helpful for me.

    People often inflict great horror quite unknowingly, just because they are ignorant and unconscious of what they do. They don’t know HOW to be God or the Devil, they don’t have the conscious options open to them.

    Once you become totally aware of everything you do, and everything that arises inside you, then you have complete control and can choose.

    I can choose to descend into the demonic realms, and I can choose to ascend into the heavenly realms, because I have learned how to do it.

    Thing is, once you can do this, it’s quite hard to take either very seriously, you know ? 🙂

    If you stand, as I outlined, put your palms together, in the centre of your chest, as in the prayer shape, although this has nothing to do with prayer, it just aids concentration. Your forearms horizontal, eyes closed. Empty your whole being, from soles of feet to top of head, standing very tall and proud.

    Then you say to yourself, ‘In this very moment, I attain complete perfection’ and let your mind be completely silent, still, and without thought. And be perfect.

    Obviously, that perfection will not last. But, for a short while, you have total divine perfection.

    Something, sooner or later, will intrude, or change, which will mar your state of grace.

    You have to expect that. But it does not matter. For a brief time, you have it. The more you cultivate it and cherish it, the more it returns and stays.

    I tell you all this, from my shamanic role. It’s easy for me to do, no effort or trouble, and it makes the world slightly better, maybe, rather than worse. That’s all……”

    #19847

    AmyBe
    Participant

    from private correspondence:

    …………….
    …….”That link you sent me, re the illuminati stuff, I have it open at the moment…

    Mankind, according to the Bible, is not ready for these abilities, until mankind is on a higher spiritual walk with God. Today, mankind lacks the authority from God to use occult powers. Mankind’s flirtation with occult powers, is similar to the teenage boy who is disobedient to his father’s guidelines and uses his new sexual powers before he has learned responsibility and how to use his new power responsibly. We are not to be ignorant of Satan’s devices. Understanding about these powers, just as the teenage boy understanding about sexuality in a constructive way, is not the same as the irresponsible use of these powers.

    See, I do not go along with any of that ‘God v. Satan’ crap. It’s all part of a particular model, that’s part of American culture, it’s not helpful, in fact, imo, it’s a disaster.

    Look, it’s not for me to tell you what to do, or to intrude into your life, and being, is it.
    There’s no reason why you should accept what I say, or follow my suggestions.
    If you don’t want to hear or try them, that’s fine. All I can do, is say, this is what will work.

    Then, if you follow the recipe, you’ll find out for yourself. I don’t care either way, so long as you don’t waste my time, which I could be spending doing something else.

    You do the meditation thing, breathing from the tanden, etc, as described. And be completely non-judgemental. Just accept anything and everything. Who cares whether it is God or Satan or whatever.

    You are a human being, that’s an amazing thing to be ! You just watch, like watching the wildlife coming to the waterhole to drink. Some of the things that appear are lovely, and some are terrifying, and you are just this child that the Universe has created, with eyes, who watches and sees, and you learn from observation, quite naturally, just by looking…

    The good/bad thing is mostly bullshit. Who is it that makes that judgement ? Which part of you judges which part of you ?

    In the meditation, you are a unity, head to toes, all one empty and clear ‘thing’, a pool of awareness, that is perfect. That is the refuge to which you return, and which is the ‘new’ self that grows and becomes strong. All the old injured and sullied selves are still there, like the concentric rings of a tree’s growth, inside you, but you grow a new layer on top.

    When the new layer is really well established, then you can go back, into the unconscious mind, and dig through all the old stuff, and sort through the damage and injuries, healing it all. That’s a long painful business, of course. Perhaps some things can never be completely fixed, you just have to live with them, like a person with one leg, has to hop with a crutch.

    But there’s ways.”

    #19848

    AmyBe
    Participant

    from private correspondence, on my part {re: illuminati being mentioned in the previous comment posted}:

    …..”yes, I found the link helpful for information..not so much for the ‘spiritual’ for me. I guess more than anything else it was another form of validation..or learning ..about certain things.”

    and then later in the correspondence..

    ………………..” then, I had told you about the standing meditation thing, and then left you to get on with it.

    Well, I felt a bit troubled about that.

    Thing is, there’s hundreds of therapeutic techniques, for people who are distressed or having problems, or who want to do spiritual stuff, or whatever.

    If you think of it as climbing a mountain – which is a lousy metaphor, because there’s nowhere to get to, but it’ll serve for the point – many of the techniques are much more slow and gentle, for the masses, who pay for therapy, and go to groups, and they talk and weep, and it goes on forever.

    They walk round and round the mountain and they slowly find their way up along the tourist route, with all the guard rails and toilets, and ice cream parlours and signs telling them what to look out for, and all that crap.

    This, what I told you, is something different. It’s for elite desperate folk, who know that life is short.

    So, I say to you, here’s the mountain, the side goes up, this is where you start, just keep climbing, and then you get to the top.

    But I feel slightly bad, if I just leave you abandoned, clinging somewhere, with no idea what to do.

    I know how to do this, because I did it, on my own. But I’m a sort of lunatic, who doesn’t care what happens, or I was beyond caring, and I survived, and know the way. But it’s not for everyone.

    Both ugotstahwonder and Lidia decided I was a psychopath. Lidia and I ended up with a good relationship, after a long and ferocious fight, long ago, when she decided I was just like Sarah Palin, but then she was diagnosed with cancer and nearly died, and I was kind to her, so we were good friends after that, although we have fundamental disagreements, and I don’t correspond with her anymore, but I respect her intelligence and integrity. ugotstahwonder… well, you know.

    But they are both correct to an extent, I am a terrible man, I have caused terrible harm to some people in my life, in the past.

    However, my defence is, that the whole soceity, the whole system, is psychopathic, capitalism is predatory, it is designed to exploit and destroy, both people and nature. Millions of people die every year, all the time, directly as a result of the way that other people are living. Most refuse to see or admit this.

    The laws are made by thieves, paedophiles and murderers, to benefit the rich and powerful, so that they can get away with their crimes. The poor and weak and innocent are brutally punished and cruelly treated, and the whole planet is used as a rubbish dump, as an expendable resource.

    I have NEVER accepted this, I have fought it since I was a kid, I have NEVER compromised. Then this rotten corrupt soceity has branded ME, as being insane, because I would not join in with the madness, that IT considers to be normal.

    On top of that, I suffered all my life from this terrible Cluster Headache thing. So, along with a whole lot of other extreme problems and catastrophes, and the fact that I am hyper intelligent, I have had a very bumpy ride, and have lashed out in all directions at anyone and everyone.

    There’s a lot of that which I now deeply regret, because, as I grew older and wiser, and saw how it was for those other people, well, it would have been better if I had behaved differently. But it cannot be changed now, I just have to take care as to how things happen in the present, so that I do not cause future regrets.

    I have a link, somewhere, I can’t find it, I’ll send it when I do come across it, a pdf of a short book by someone, who researched the difference between psychopaths and so called gurus and enlightened masters, saints, and so forth.

    It’s almost impossible to tell the difference. The book was written in the 90’s. Things have changed so much. Stuff he assumes then, has turned out to be quite wrong.

    Vinay Gupta chides me, for having The Rage of Achilles, which he sees as a spiritual failing.

    But this is my world, that is being ruined, as much as it is anyone else’s. And I am one, against many, many millions, who are either against me, or just useless idiots, who are in the way.

    So, I look at whoever is in front of me, and if they are not on my side, they must get out of my way. And if they don’t, if they resist, I chop their head off. That’s how I am.

    I can’t help being like that. It is my nature. People don’t like it. I understand that. But I have to be true to what I am.

    So, I stay away from people.

    If you read about the Siberian shamans, they are respected and so on, but they are not liked, by the people. Sometimes the community had to kill them, because they become too dangerous. Those people understand this, and accept it, they see them as being like wolves or bears, they cannot help being what they are, they have great power, they can heal and foresee the future and so forth, they are of great benefit to the soceity, but at the same time, they are outside and apart, and cannot be controlled.

    Most ordinary people around here, would be lonely if they didn’t see someone else to talk to after an hour or two, they’d find it hard to spend a day alone, let alone a week. I spend many months, alone, I see the person who delivers medicine from the pharmacy every few weeks for a few minutes, he hands it over the gate, I sign a form, say thanks, nice day, I see the various guys who deliver my food, much the same, every week or two. That’s about all the social contact I have.

    I LIKE it. I prefer not to see or meet people. Most people will consider this very strange, that I am crazy, I am deprived, that I am missing something. I consider myself amazingly fortunate to be so lucky to live in a place where I have this luxury.”

    #19859

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    Thanks for these contributions.

    First, re the ‘Saints and Psychopaths’.

    I am extremely dubious about the value of these labels. They are just McKenna’s ‘little mouth noises’, labels that one bunch of people stick onto another bunch of people.

    They signify approval or disapproval. Unless they are used by a technical specialist, when they have some expertise to back them up, in ordinary vernacular popular parlance, a saint is just a euphemism for a good guy and a psychopath for a bad guy, and one person’s good guy, is another person’s bad guy, depending which side you happen to be on.

    I didn’t read that book with great care, I skimmed over it rather quickly, I only read certain portions that caught my interest in closer detail. But my impression was that his analysis is very dated, and very questionable, on all sorts of grounds.

    I don’t have time here, to develop a thorough critique, I mean, that would involve a book length project, but basically, the people who make the judgements, the classifications, re what might be termed loosely ‘social deviancy’, are shills, they are sociologists, psychiatrists, etc, who have seats provided by the system which they serve.

    This whole system, the industrial, capitalist, British, American, European culture, which educates, trains, employs such people, is ITSELF utterly pathological and barbaric. Only, because everyone is on the INSIDE, they cannot see that. They are like fishes in water, and they cannot see the water they swim in, it’s invisible to them, and taken for granted, as the norm.

    So, to get a glimpse of what this means, we have to turn to, for example, writers or radical thinkers, who can explain that there are other ways of seeing and knowing the situation, other perspectives that are available.

    For the majority, this seems to be impossible, they cannot stretch their worldview, it’s too demanding.

    The Romans were entertained by the slaughter of thousands, in the Circus Maximus, every afternoon, and that was ‘normal’, just like a football match.
    Same for the Aztecs, ripping the hearts out of hundreds of sacrificial victims.to keep the sun rising. For this culture, which is every bit as bloody and cruel, we think we are ‘different’, we think we are ‘civilised’, we think we have ‘progressed’, we think we are ‘modern’, we think we are ‘advanced’, important, we like to think all kinds of things about ourselves…

    But there is a problem. Viewed from outside the fence, the boundary of ‘westernized’ capitalist industrial culture, it sort of looks rather different. Because every dollar bill, every euro and pound coin, is actually dripping with blood.

    All of this ‘wealth’ that we ‘enjoy’, has been, is being, wrested from nature, by violence. It all comes from primary resources, fish, wood, soil, etc, that get destroyed, or taken, from other people, who are deprived of their livelihoods – they must die, so we can live. If they object to being robbed, our soldiers, or proxy soldiers, kill them, or they are forced into squalid shanty towns, or living on rubbish dumps, etc.

    The people who run this system that we have, need to be able to perform this service for us, without any qualms. That is, they need to murder, loot pillage, and destroy life on Earth, without being much troubled at all. In fact, its better if they actually enjoy it, they’ll do it with vigour and enthusiasm, so encourage them, with big financial rewards and honours.

    So, we have a system run by, and for, psychopaths, sociopaths, and the most depraved and unpleasant types of individual, people who are very cunning, who can feign being sincere, pleasant, charming, whilst secretly scheming and plotting and planning assassination, robbery and murder.

    THAT is the kind of culture and civilisation that we HAVE. And ALMOST EVERYONE fucking LIKES it. BECAUSE almost everyone likes the filthy money that they get from this system.

    And if you don’t want to join in, if you object, and especially if your objections are loud and effective, you will be labelled as ‘mad’ or some similar pejorative term, and moves will be made to neutralise you.

    In the worst case, if you are seen as a threat, you will be ‘removed from the scene’, one way or another. Suicided, imprisoned, or whatever it takes.

    Because the ‘criminal psychopathic maniacs’ who have control of power in this system, who are paedophiles, murderers, liars, thieves, will not allow anything to STOP them doing what they are doing, what they have been doing for hundreds of years now.

    So, given that is the context, the background…

    Then, looking at any particular person, and judging their behaviour, their personality, on a scale of ‘good – bad’… from my way of looking, the ‘good’ ones, are ‘the outlaws’, who defy the system, find ways of stepping around the barriers, and fighting back. But these people are a very tiny minority, and the majority own the media, and will always brand them with ‘nasty names’ and try to smear their characters in any way they can, that’s the stage before they actually imprison or kill you.

    The classical idea of a ‘saint’, as someone who is very spiritually advanced, holy, devoted to ‘God’, whatever that means… and so forth.

    Well, that’s a fascinating area, isn’t it. Who is to pass judgement on such people ? Who is qualified ?

    I read a marvellous passage – I must try and find it again – where a Russian Orthodox guy, (the ones who kept ‘God’, the Holy Spirit, as a direct physical experience) critiques the Western Roman Catholic Saints, and finds fault with them all, including St Francis of Assissi, on various grounds.

    Here’s a rating service which is quite interesting.

    http://www3.telus.net/public/sarlo/Ratings.htm

    How many people do you have to kill before you qualify to be described as a mass murderer and a war criminal?

    http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/2005/pinter-lecture-e.html

    #19860

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    @ AmyBe

    I think it would be helpful if you used the ‘i’ italic thing from the tool bar, when there is more than one voice in your comment, for clarity.

    #19865

    AmyBe
    Participant

    thank you, will do so in the future, and will ponder on what you have given me, which is a great deal of food for thought. What is that quote..something about it being no sign of sanity to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society? Forget who said that…

    and yes, the book was a bit dated, and the perspective his, but there is still some truth in it to be gleaned, and I did find it helpful. It’s all like that, in the end. Sifting through it all to find what is useful for me..like some kind of crazy quilt being sewn together..I believe the Japanese have an art form for it..Kentsugi..I just found this and it fits with how I feel in a way so I am sharing it here:

    The Japanese have an amazing ancient practice of mending broken ceramics with gold filled resin. The origins of this practice come from a story of a wealthy man who broke his precious tea cup. He sent it out to be repaired and to his astonishment, it was returned stapled together. It was ugly to his eye and unusable. To please the man a craftsman found away to repair the cup using gold resin, making it more beautiful. The belief is that the object is more valuable and beautiful with its history revealed. Imagine a world where we could embrace our history, in other words, our wounds, and find ourselves and each other more beautiful?

    On the surface we know that we grow thru our wounds. Though deep inside we are telling ourselves a very different story. It is the story of shame. We keep our wounds hidden away from others, we hide them from ourselves too. If we don’t look, we can pretend they are not there. If we convince ourselves the wounds are not there, we do not have to admit our pain. Admitting our pain makes us vulnerable.

    Why are we ashamed of having a wound that is hurting? Why are we afraid to be vulnerable in admitting to that wound? When we see others hurting, our reaction is to help, yet when it comes to ourselves, we want to hide our pain from others. Is it that we are too strong to need help or that we are too weak to admit our vulnerability?

    In Leonard Cohen’s song, Anthem, he says “There is a crack in everything. That is how the light gets in.” Let that sink in for a moment. The Crack is to be welcomed. The Crack is our teacher.

    From birth we have been growing thru our wounds. What did our parents teach us about that? Did they teach us to grow and become more beautiful, or did they teach us to “buck up” and become ashamed of our feelings?

    What if we repaired our wounds with gold? What if we embraced the wound to find what gifts it holds for us? Can we dig in and find the golden nuggets waiting there to be discovered? I use this metaphor with my clients. We go back to look at the wound, not to be a victim or lay blame on others, we go back to retrieve the golden nuggets; the skills, the tools and the truth. We take the golden nuggets, and with them, we heal the wound. We find beauty where there was shame. In admitting the shame we become vulnerable, in vulnerability our hearts begin to open. When our hearts begin to open we find peace, joy and love.

    What if you filled your wounds with the golden nuggets of wisdom instead of shame? What if your wounds did not turn into baggage to be carried around, but instead became a place of learning and beauty?

    Life is full of wounds. I prefer to call them Teachers. Kabir says it beautifully in this poem;

    The Time Before Death

    Friend, hope for the Guest while you are alive.
    Jump into experience while you are alive!
    Think…. and think… while you are alive.
    What you call “salvation” belongs to the time before death.

    If you don’t break your ropes while you’re alive,
    do you think
    ghosts will do it after?

    The idea that the soul will rejoin with the ecstatic
    just because the body is rotten—
    that is all fantasy.
    What is found now is found then.
    If you find nothing now,
    you will simply end up with an apartment in the
    City of Death.

    If you make love with the divine now, in the next
    life you will have the face of satisfied desire.

    So plunge in to the truth, find out who the Teacher is,
    Believe in the Great Sound!

    Kabir says this: When the Guest is being searched for,
    it is the intensity of the longing for the Guest that
    does all the work.

    Look at me, and you will see a slave of that intensity.
    Kabir

    Will you begin today, with a small step, to embrace your teacher?

    It’s called a practice….

    http://www.examiner.com/article/kintsugi-mending-our-wounds-with-gold

    That is what I picture going on within me..taking the broken pieces of myself and using the refined precious liquid that has been melted in..a lot of it in the form of tears..and find the beauty in those broken shards..the resealed jar that once put back together, can pour out healing waters ..yah, that’s corny, I know. But it makes me feel good, so sometimes when I use that empty jar that isn’t made yet as a vision of what my ’empty place’ …my pure place within is..

    #19866

    AmyBe
    Participant

    sometimes I use that as a vision of what could be..

    and that makes it what is.

    #19868

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    What is that quote..something about it being no sign of sanity to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society? Forget who said that…

    Krishnamurti, although others have said much the same.

    #19869

    AmyBe
    Participant

    here is a VERY interesting site I have discovered that others might find useful and/or helpful as well, along the same lines at the ‘guru ratings’ link you posted:

    PURPOSE OF THIS GROUP: All New People Must Read

    New Age Frauds Plastic Shamans or NAFPS is an activist group of Native people and our supporters. We began NAFPS five years ago as a Yahoo club/group and went through a lot together, at least eight unsuccessful attempts to shut us down, empty threats of lawsuits, stalkers, identity thieves, libel campaigns, and even death threats. We have emerged from it all relatively unscathed and more determined than ever to continue our work.

    Ths group and forum is for those concerned about the fraud, deceit, money hunger, sexual abuse, racism, control, hunger for power and ego, and cult-like tendencies of the New Age movement and pseudo “shamans.” We investigate and seek to warn the public about impostors and exploiters posing as Native medicine people or elders. There are more than two hundred impostors out there posing as Cherokee medicine people alone. Multiply that by five hundred Native nations in the US, and add on the exploiters who abuse or lie about practices of Latin America’s Indians, and you get an idea of the sheer, massive scope of the problem.

    WHAT NAFPS IS AND IS NOT:

    1) We are not a “hate” group, any more than a rape crisis center promotes “hate” of men. This is one of the more ridiculous knee-jerk claims thrown at us. Many Nuage frauds are themselves blatantly racist in their contempt for Native people, beliefs, and wishes on these issues.

    If anything we are an ANTI-hate group, a HateWatch group specializing in monitoring and warning the public about a special brand of racist, the Nuage fraud or pseudo-shaman leader.

    Frankly, most of us in here *don’t really care* what the blood quantum, enrollment status, or family history of anyone in here are.

    The only time we would care was if someone had lied in order to “pass” or appear “more Indian” to justify their misbehavior.

    We accept all kinds of people in here: Native, white, black, Latino, Maori, traditionalist, Christian, pagan, atheist, Muslim, etc.

    We have members from an amazing variety of tribal backgrounds, Anishinaabe, Apache, Cherokee, Choctaw, Lakota, Lenni Lenape, Menominee, Munsee, Navajo, O’odham, and many others.

    We gladly accept help from all good people of conscience, because without them we can’t stop these frauds. And without them, we wouldn’t have had nearly as much success against frauds as we have.

    What NAFPS Does, & How We Are Different From Nuage Frauds

    1) No one at NAFPS has ever sold ceremonies, workshops, seminars, healings, readings, “asteroid avoidance courses” (yes, some frauds actually do), or anything else like that.

    2) No one at NAFPS ever claimed to be a medicine man, elder, healer, wiseman, “don”, “ascended master”, “avatar”, holy man, or anything else that frauds claim to be.

    3) No one at NAFPS ever claimed to be descended from Geronimo, Chief Joseph, Black Elk, etc.

    4) No one at NAFPS ever claimed to have “channeled” or be the “reincarnation” of those same famous people.

    5) No one at NAFPS ever told the gullible, vulnerable, and desperate that they had to put out to take part in a made up ceremony, give head, be sodomized, whipped, and even pay to be sexually abused. No one at NAFPS ever molested children as part of their roles as alleged “great leaders”.

    6) No one at NAFPS has ever lied or deceived for a living.

    7) No one at NAFPS has ever formed a cult around themselves.

    8) No one at NAFPS has ever threatened lawsuits at anyone that disagreed with them.

    9) No one at NAFPS has ever tried to isolate the people who listen to them from other people, often breaking up families in the process.

    10) No one at NAFPS has ever regarded spirituality selling and pay to pray as an acceptable way to make a buck. (Often tens or even hundreds of thousands of them.)

    We at NAFPS make no claim to perfection. But…

    1) We do research the information we put out.

    2) We seek to *prevent* harm to people, not cause harm.

    Except to frauds, who we merely wish to bankrupt, drive out of business, or see thrown in jail for some of the worst abuses.

    3) That means we take great care with our warnings and pronouncements.

    We *do* retract or alter them if new information comes out, or if we inadvertently harm people.

    4) We feel free to disagree among ourselves. That much should be obvious.

    No one is punished for simple dissent. In more than four years, we’ve only kicked out perhaps half a dozen people, and in each case after they’d severely disrupted the group for weeks at a time.

    5) And this gets down to the final point, again worth repeating:

    We are not a “hate” group, but are about as ANTI racist as can be.

    Frankly, most of us in here *don’t really care* what the blood quantum, enrollment status, or family history of anyone in here are.

    The only time we would care was if someone had lied in order to “pass” or appear “more Indian” to justify their misbehavior.

    We accept all kinds of people in here. We gladly accept help from all good people of conscience, because without them we can’t stop these frauds. And without them, we wouldn’t have had nearly as much success against frauds as we have.

    Welcome to NAFPS. Feel free to ask questions or comment.

    http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1.0

    #19870

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

    http://grahamlarkin.info/2013/08/25/borges-duchamp-and-i/

    #19871

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    One of the most nightmarish things about a dark age is the degradation it entails for life’s overall tone, not least in the dehumanization that occurs when a people’s intellectual, emotional, moral, spiritual, political, social, and cultural life in general is reduced to a ghastly level of brutishness and ignorance. As is now plainly evident all around us in the industrialized world of present-day info-technocracy, this coarsening of life can occur even in circumstances of relative material prosperity. It doesn’t always have to be a dark age like the one that gripped Europe in the aftermath of Rome’s fall, when starvation and plague were rampant and most people barely scraped by at a miserable subsistence level. A dark age can unfold and exist right in the middle of outward conditions that may appear enlightened to those who don’t look too closely or deeply.

    Sometimes it’s oddly comforting to dwell on the words of people who have seen today’s dark age of dehumanization unfolding. When it feels like the world is full of robots instead of people, or when it begins to feel like we really are living on the planet of the apes (as Robert Anton Wilson liked to put it), it can be a powerfully affirming experience to be reminded that other people have observed the same thing.

    With this in mind, here are three of my own favorite articulations of these things, which, based on my own experience, I recommend you ingest, digest, memorize, and keep mentally handy for reciting to yourself on a rainy day. There are no solutions offered here. There’s just the satisfaction of being confronted by grim realities and looking them full in the face.

    http://www.teemingbrain.com/2015/03/21/dehumanized-in-a-dark-age/

    #19874

    AmyBe
    Participant

    definitely hushing weird there. 😉

    and I was reading this from elsewhere and thought it germane to the thread:

    Enlightenment is utterly and completely about asking yourself your own questions and getting your own answers, for yourself, by yourself. You must
    be your own authority in all things spiritual. You may need to spend considerable time seeking outside yourself for your answers. But eventually you will get severely frustrated with all of that. That is when you nullify everything and everyone ‘outthere’ and make the Grand U-Turn back into yourself. It is now time to confront yourself head-on. Rely on no one else. There is no other option, no other way. Every other approach is a left turn to nowhere; every book, religious figure and guru a dead end street.

    http://www.vidaclara.com/Assets/Enlightenment_Traps.pdf

    #19875

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    Well, it’s quite interesting.

    People want something called ‘enlightenment’, but they don’t know what it is, so how will they know, if they find it, or have it, if or when, they do come across it ?

    Is it the thought that is enlightened, or the person having the thought, or what is it, that becomes, or gets, enlightened ?

    Is it the buddhist version of enlightenment, or the hindu version, or some other version ?

    The essay starts off by saying that meditation won’t get it for you, and gives an outline of what the author thinks meditation is.

    But is that really what meditation is ? There’s lots of different approaches to meditation…

    I agree with the general thrust, though. People would probably like to be ‘enlightened’, whatever it means, if it means that they could be happier, less unhappy and confused, and feel their lives were deeper, more meaningful, fulfilling, less anxiety, fear of death, loss, and so on.

    And, generally, all the spiritual systems are failures, they don’t provide what people want or need, in any very effective fashion, they just form globby tribal groups with labels, which huddle together around a set of dogmatic proclamations which they hold to be ‘truths’, as a kind of social identity.

    When you meet the individuals that comprise these groups, are they any better or worse, than any others ? Buddhists better than Hindus, Moslems, Christians, Atheists, etc, in all their many sub-divisions ?

    The author mentions Mr Jesus, Mr Buddha, Mr Krishna, etc, but these are mythical, idealised, fantasy figures, whom nobody has ever met, they are fictions, not real people in the real world where we all live.

    What you have to do, is sit (or stand) doing the meditation, and purify your inner being, so that you find – well, what it is called depends upon the paradigm or belief system that you choose, if you are Russian Orthodox, following St Gregory Palamas, perhaps you call it the Holy Spirit ? – and then, disregarding what that author says, about meditation, you do not STOP, when you stand up, or move about, you stay with it, you keep it with you, wherever you go, whatever you do.

    That, is enlightened ‘being in the world’, if you want put it in those sort of words. But who cares ? Who cares what it is called ? You just do it.

    And what happens, is that after an short duration of time, you’ll probably lose it. Because, being a spiritually weak person, who is not very good at this stuff, some old habit, some social conditioning, some circumstance, some thought, memory, feeling, will distract and disrupt and wreck your lovely ‘enlightenment’.

    And you fall off the cliff and die… 🙂

    Read the fucking Buddha’s account. That’s why he is clenching his teeth. To hold onto what he had found !

    #19879

    AmyBe
    Participant

    this?

    Struggle

    Meeting with disappointment, but not discouraged, the ascetic Gotama seeking for the incomparable Peace, the highest Truth, wandered through the district of Magadha, and arrived in due course at Uruvelā, the market town of Senāni. There he spied a lovely spot of ground, a charming forest grove, a flowing river with pleasant sandy fords, and hard by was a village where he could obtain his food. Then he thought thus:

    “Lovely, indeed, O Venerable One, is this spot of ground, charming is the forest grove, pleasant is the flowing river with sandy fords, and hard by is the village where I could obtain food. Suitable indeed is this place for spiritual exertion for those noble scions who desire to strive.” (Majjhima Nikāya, Ariya-Pariyesana Sutta No. 26, Vol. 1, p. 16)

    The place was congenial for his meditation. The atmosphere was peaceful. The surroundings were pleasant. The scenery was charming. Alone, he resolved to settle down there to achieve his desired object.

    Hearing of his renunciation, Konda?a, the youngest brahmin who predicted his future, and four sons of the other sages — Bhaddiya, Vappa, Mahānāma, and Assaji — also renounced the world and joined his company.

    In the ancient days in India, great importance was attached to rites, ceremonies, penances and sacrifices. It was then a popular belief that no Deliverance could be gained unless one leads a life of strict asceticism. Accordingly, for six long years the ascetic Gotama made a superhuman struggle practising all forms of severest austerity. His delicate body was reduced to almost a skeleton. The more he tormented his body the farther his goal receded from him.

    How strenuously he struggled, the various methods he employed, and how he eventually succeeded are graphically described in his own words in various Suttas.

    Mahā Saccaka Sutta [1] describes his preliminary efforts thus:

    “Then the following thought occurred to me:

    “How if I were to clench my teeth, press my tongue against the palate, and with (moral) thoughts hold down, subdue and destroy my (immoral) thoughts!

    “So I clenched my teeth, pressed my tongue against the palate and strove to hold down, subdue, destroy my (immoral) thoughts with (moral) thoughts. As I struggled thus, perspiration streamed forth from my armpits.

    “Like unto a strong man who might seize a weaker man by head or shoulders and hold him down, force him down, and bring into subjection, even so did I struggle.

    “Strenuous and indomitable was my energy. My mindfulness was established and unperturbed. My body was, however, fatigued and was not calmed as a result of that painful endeavour — being overpowered by exertion. Even though such painful sensations arose in me, they did not at all affect my mind.

    “Then I thought thus: How if I were to cultivate the non-breathing ecstasy!

    “Accordingly, I checked inhalation and exhalation from my mouth and nostrils. As I checked inhalation and exhalation from mouth and nostrils, the air issuing from my ears created an exceedingly great noise. Just as a blacksmith’s bellows being blown make an exceedingly great noise, even so was the noise created by the air issuing from my ears when I stopped breathing.

    “Nevertheless, my energy was strenuous and indomitable. Established and unperturbed was my mindfulness. Yet my body was fatigued and was not calmed as a result of that painful endeavour — being over-powered by exertion.

    Even though such painful sensations arose in me, they did not at all affect my mind.

    “Then I thought to myself: ‘How if I were to cultivate that non-breathing exercise!

    “Accordingly, I checked inhalation and exhalation from mouth, nostrils, and ears. And as I stopped breathing from mouth, nostrils and ears, the (imprisoned) airs beat upon my skull with great violence. Just as if a strong man were to bore one’s skull with a sharp drill, even so did the airs beat my skull with great violence as I stopped breathing. Even though such painful sensations arose in me, they did not at all affect my mind.

    “Then I thought to myself: How if I were to cultivate that non-breathing ecstasy again!

    “Accordingly, I checked inhalation and exhalation from mouth, nostrils, and ears. And as I stopped breathing thus, terrible pains arose in my head. As would be the pains if a strong man were to bind one’s head tightly with a hard leathern thong, even so were the terrible pains that arose in my head. “Nevertheless, my energy was strenuous. Such painful sensations did not affect my mind.

    “Then I thought to myself: How if I were to cultivate that non-breathing ecstasy again!

    “Accordingly, I stopped breathing from mouth, nostrils, and ears. As I checked breathing thus, plentiful airs pierced my belly. Just as if a skilful butcher or a butcher’s apprentice were to rip up the belly with a sharp butcher’s knife, even so plentiful airs pierced my belly.

    “Nevertheless, my energy was strenuous. Such painful sensations did not affect my mind.

    “Again I thought to myself: How if I were to cultivate that non-breathing ecstasy again!

    “Accordingly, I checked inhalation and exhalation from mouth, nostrils, and ears. As I suppressed my breathing thus, a tremendous burning pervaded my body. Just as if two strong men were each to seize a weaker man by his arms and scorch and thoroughly burn him in a pit of glowing charcoal, even so did a severe burning pervade my body.

    “Nevertheless, my energy was strenuous. Such painful sensations did not affect my mind.

    “Thereupon the deities who saw me thus said: ‘The ascetic Gotama is dead.’ Some remarked: ‘The ascetic Gotama is not dead yet, but is dying’. While some others said: ‘The ascetic Gotama is neither dead nor is dying but an Arahant is the ascetic Gotama. Such is the way in which an Arahant abides.”

    http://www.buddhism.org/Sutras/BuddhaTeachings/page_02.html

    #19880

    AmyBe
    Participant

    I have finally got back to reading about Pyrrhonism, and found this pretty interesting:

    …Buddha’s refusal to countenance beliefs about the nature of things, including his insistence that such beliefs were to be neither affirmed nor denied. In both Buddhism and Pyrrhonian scepticism, Flintoff points out, some kind of liberation from suffering is the goal, and it is achieved by resisting assent to any identification with extreme or dogmatic views or beliefs, whether affirmative or negative, which go beyond what is self-evident.

    Such views overvalue or undervalue ordinary experience, our phainomena and noomena, and so either way lead to the anxiety and suffering which follow upon most such mismatches between speculation and experience. As a practical therapy
    and antidote to such views, both Buddhists and Pyrrhonists advocate steering a middle course through life, taking experiences at face value, and avoiding unsubstantiated beliefs or conclusions, neither affirming nor denying them. There is neither some ultra-reality underlying phainomena and noomena (sensations and thoughts), they suggest, nor are phainomena and noomena
    nothing at all; rather they seem to be a curious sort of semi-determinative, semi-indeterminative kind of experience

    and a little later..

    For Pyrrhonists, like Buddhists and other nondogmatic soteriological
    schools, attachment is a symptom of a problem, not a solution. But ataraxia, free of any link to a view or attachment, escapes this burden; it is quite a different response to the claims of beliefs, and Flintoff proposes that it is for this reason that ataraxia was introduced by the Pyrrhonists in place of
    euthymia and other similar terms, such eudaimonia. Ataraxia is not the elation of finding the hidden “truth” underlying experience, nor the security offered by a belief in such a truth, but is instead a liberation from the urge to seek such “truths” or beliefs at all. Insofar as ataraxia follows only upon such a suspension of belief, and not upon the adoption of any belief, it could not have been experienced by dogmatists like Epicureans, Stoics, Aristotelians, Platonists, Academic Sceptics, etc. Ataraxia is not achieved by replacing an apparently discredited belief with a supposedly betterone, but only by suspending all beliefs. This sense of ataraxia seems to have been what the Pyrrhonists themselves thought distingtuished them from the dogmatists, including Epicureans and Stoics who later adopted the term but continued to presume, as in the case of euthymia, that it could be realized in a dogmatic context.

    this is further addressed here: Flintoff points out that we have to wait for Pyrrho’s use of the term ataraxia (freedom from passion, calmness, tranquility) to make this result explicit in Greek thought. He reminds us, moreover, that a complex vocabulary for states variously free of belief (ahimsa, advaita, nirvana,ananda, samadhi, bodhi, chit, moksa, sat) existed early on in India among virtually all major schools.

    http://www.e-reading.club/bookreader.php/134630/Pyrrhonism.pdf

    of course I am still not finished reading this myself yet.

    #19881

    AmyBe
    Participant

    from private correspondence:

    {quoting me}: a while back i realized that the opposite of fear isn’t hope, it’s love.
    and recently I also realized that the opposite of shame isn’t honor, it’s honesty.

    for me, anyway, that’s what works for me. {end quoting me}

    But who care what the opposite is. Some petty ego experiences these things and is attached to these things.

    If you go to the centre, it’s just empty and still, and then, you’re a much deeper person, because you’re rooted into something vast and it doesn’t change, unlike fear and hope and love and honour and all these thing, which are human vanities.

    And when you are operating from that much deeper place, then you can remain very calm, and see clearly into the nature of things, whatever it is that is occurring.

    You see that fear arises, and you notice where you feel it, and understand why it has come to you, and you just let it pass, and so on, paying close attention to whatever is real and of actual concern, not fantasies or wild imaginings. You just stay absolutely centred in that ‘nothingness’, which in my way of explaining, is in the belly, in the tanden.

    It’s the link between the Wheel of Samsara, of worldly stuff, birth and death, and Nirvana, the heavenly realms, it’s the axis that connects the two. Right at the very centre of the axle, nothing turns, there is no rotation. So that’s where you place your attention, your consciousness. Then you are liberated from all worldly suffering, whilst at the same time, you participate, in the world.

    You talk about worshipping Kwan Yin. But it is no good worshipping her, is it, as some sort of abstract external concept, a statue. The idea is to become Kwan Yin, yourself, internally. And to do that, you have to be completely strong and able to deal with any circumstance. And the way to do that, is, as I’ve just said, this thing, where you join samsara and nirvana together.

    Or, in more christian language, join heaven and hell together. It means you can go into hell, to save people ( Including YOURSELF !) because you know how to take heaven with you.

    #19882

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    (This is my reply to your Buddha text comment – you sent 2 more while I was composing it !)

    No, that’s not what I had in mind.

    That’s from the time when he was trying all sorts of different techniques.

    Eventually, after some years of that, yoga, fasting, etc, he sits down under the tree, and finds the thing that works for him, finds what he had been looking for.

    But in the earliest recorded texts, which I have bookmarked somewhere, he’s telling someone about that experience, and he’s still, having found it, clenching his teeth, as he is struggling so hard not to lose it…

    If I have remembered it correctly…

    Anyway, I am supposed to be writing about this for another blog post… not here… or here as well ? I suppose it doesn’t matter, ahahaha, it’s my fucking blog, I can write anything anywhere anytime, I might die before I finish the next blog post, hahahahaha…

    Look, it is very hard to explain, because it is ‘beyond words’, that is, or, that means, you don’t use the thinking, cerebral, intellectual, part of yourself, the mind, to do this. And that’s the part that uses words and ideas.

    If that part is switched off, then how the hell does one talk about it, or communicate it, or explain it, to another person ? It is not easy.

    However, I think it is possible.

    This is St Gregory Palamas, from six hundred years ago.

    But I am incapable of expressing and explaining these matters. If the preceding topics are equally inexplicable, yet these relate to the subject which concerns us.
    So to return — the contemplation of this light is a union, even though it does not endure with the imperfect. But is the union with this light other than a vision? And since it is brought about by the cessation of intellectual activity, how could it be accomplished if not by the Spirit?
    For it is in light that the light is seen, and that which sees operates in a similar light, since this faculty has no other way in which to work. Having separated itself from all other beings, it becomes itself all light and is assimilated to what it sees, or rather, it is united to it without mingling, being itself light and seeing light through light. If it sees itself, it sees
    light; if it beholds the object of its vision, that too is light; and if it looks at the means by which it sees, again it is light. For such is the character of the union, that all is one, so that he who sees can distinguish neither the means nor the object nor its nature, but simply has the awareness of being light and of seeing a light distinct from every creature.

    He is struggling to talk about something which he admits is inexplicable, and which occurs following the cessation of intellectual activity.

    Elsewhere, he goes into slightly more detail, but it is all very vague.

    However, if you look at the Buddhist texts, they describe the exact same thing, but in much greater detail, and with much better instructions as to what to do.

    Gregory Palamas believes that what he and his fellow monks are messing with, is the Holy Spirit, as described in the various biblical texts that they are working from, and they see their experiences in a context that is Christian, i.e. featuring Jesus and their conception of a Christian God.

    But, when you read the Buddhist versions of the SAME experiences, which, as I said, are beyond words, because ‘cessation of intellectual activity’, then they have a different context, or framework, no Jesus, no Christian God.

    But the Hindus also have this same experience, or set of experiences, and place it within their context. and so do the Taoists !

    SO, what we can do, is strip away all of the localised cultural stuff, and just focus on the actual experience(s).

    Gregory Palamas admits that he and the monks have no idea what the experience really is or what it means. But it is SOMETHING, and it’s obviously very significant and impressive, and they assume, it must be from God.

    The Buddha never says that it is NOT from God. What he says, he’s not interested in arguing about theology. What his whole project was about, was an enquiry into the causes of human suffering and whether there was any possible way to find an answer to that conundrum. So he’s trying to explain to people, for the rest of his life, how they can live in such a way as to minimise human suffering in all its aspects.

    When people try to pin him down, re a God, whatever, he tends to sidestep the question, (as in questions of King Milindra, I think) and he says there is an Uncreated, or an Unconditioned. Whatever he meant by that ?

    Nevermind. The Hindus have Brahman and Atman, the Tibetans have all sorts. But the Taoist version, that’s extremely detailed, and doesn’t involve any theology. Link at the bottom.

    But here’s my version.

    You have to find this thing called chi, that Gregory Palamas calls Holy Spirit. Nobody really knows what this is, in western terms. It’s probably some sort of ‘bio-electro-magnetic field’ or something, maybe it has some weird quantum aspects, that link to some unknown dimension, that is curled up, folded into the normal dimensions of space plus time which we take for granted. Whatever it is, it is quite peculiar, and does not conform to standard rules of accepted biology and physics, so there HAS to be something else going on. When western scientists eventually get over themselves, perhaps some progress will be made. There’s already masses of experimental evidence.

    Anyway, that’s a digression. Point is, how to find it, yourself.

    They call it taoist alchemy, not because it was mixing chemicals, but because it was mixing these other, ‘mystical’ ingredients.

    You need the mental energy, that is, the ‘intellectual activity’ that you shut down, as the first constituent. So, you take that, into your forehead, in the form of a word, or a mental image, a visual shape. I don’t think, myself, that it matters, what it is, but, because this was always done in a serious religious ritualised setting, they have always used traditional sacred names or images.

    Then you move that, with the breath, down to the tanden, just below the navel, and then you ‘mix’ that ingredient, with the breath energy.

    So you have an intense concentration of attention at that point. Where you have ‘mixed’ those two elements.

    You must be absolutely ‘in the now’, and you do this for no reason at all.
    You do not do it because you expect anything, or want anything, or try to achieve anything, there is no goal or purpose. You just do it.

    You build stronger and stronger concentration at that point, which is quite hard to maintain at first, but then you enter into what the buddhists call the jhanas, which have various associated effects, bliss, rapture, weightlessness, etc. And then you may enter into the ‘light’ that Gregory Palamas mentioned above, where there appears to be no sense of time, or weight, it’s sort of ‘floating in eternity’, what the Hindus call nirvikalpa samadhi. And then, beyond that, there’s a few more degrees of whatever, ahahaha, that you can sort of nudge through, but there’s no self, no me, nothing there at all, it’s just a sense of a limitless void….

    So, that’s what those guys, and the Buddha, are talking about.

    You can call it whatever you want to call it. It does not care what you call it. Whatever it is… well, nobody really knows do they ? We can try to talk about it, whether it is like this, or like that, but that means nothing, when it is not ‘like’ anything else that we know of…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvikalpa
    http://neigong.net/2011/06/06/how-to-successfully-lower-qi-to-dantian/

    #19890

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    I tried to find the ‘teeth clenching’ reference that I had bookmarked. That website has GONE, but it has a mirror site here, but there’s loads of stuff on it, I have not had time to sift through to see if I can find the exact quote…

    http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/index.htm

    #19903

    AmyBe
    Participant

    I am supposed to be writing about this for another blog post… not here… or here as well ? I suppose it doesn’t matter, ahahaha, it’s my fucking blog, I can write anything anywhere anytime, I might die before I finish the next blog post, hahahahaha…

    absolutely yes, everywhere it can be put, put it, this is invaluable.

    #19952

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    How Gregory Palamas relates to the contemporary world…

    “For us the rebirth of Russia is inextricably tied, first of all, with spiritual rebirth . . .and if Russia is the largest Orthodox power [pravoslavnaya dershava], then Greece and Athos are its source.” —Vladimir Putin during a state visit to Mount Athos, September 2005.

    http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/03/27/5051

    #19955

    AmyBe
    Participant

    among other things, this is what I am reading now and thought you might find interesting..

    “Could the cosmos itself possess consciousness in some form?”, but this is difficult to answer since we cannot perceive the quantum vacuum directly and even if we could, “consciousness is ‘private’, we cannot ordinarily observe it in anyone but ourselves”. However “We could enter an altered state of consciousness and identify ourselves with the vacuum, the deepest and most fundamental level of reality [like the vedic method of meditating upon Brahman]… would we experience a physical field of fluctuating energies? Or would we experience something like a cosmic field of consciousness? The latter is much more likely… when we experience anybody else’s brain ‘from the outside’ we do not experience his or her consciousness… But we know that when we experience our brain ‘from the inside’ we experience not neurons, but the qualitative features that make up our stream of consciousness… Would not the same hold true when we project ourselves into a mystical union with the vacuum? … there is indirect yet significant evidence for it… in deeply altered states of consciousness, many people experience a kind of consciousness that appears to be that of the universe itself… They describe what they experience as an immense and unfathomable field of consciousness endowed with infinite intelligence and creative power. The field of cosmic consciousness they experience is a cosmic emptiness – a void. Yet … it is also an essential fullness… The vacuum they experience is a plenum: nothing is missing in it. It is the ultimate source of existence, the cradle of all being… The phenomenal world is its creation: the realization and concretization of its inherent potential.”

    http://www.anandavala.info/TASTMOTNOR/The%20Akashic%20Field.html

    #19956

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    Yes. Numerous people have come to that conclusion. But then, numerous people will dispute it, in various grounds. 🙂

    Perhaps you’d like to gather up the various schools of thought and classify them ? 😉

    #19957

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    No doubt, I could make a lot of money if I was less scrupulous and went in for this kind of shit… It’d be THAT fucking simple, hahahahahaha

    Only $150 an hour !

    Life is not meant to be endured. It’s meant to be enjoyed. If you’ve been living in a chronic state of emotional, mental, and/or physical suffering, then the best spiritual coach who is trained in the art of transformation can help get you “unstuck” and put you on the path for mental, physical, and spiritual healing. Your personal life coach will teach you how to remove the mental obstacles that are preventing you from realizing your potential as a spiritual being. Suffering is the result of your identification with your ego and your physical body. But your ego is not who you are. And neither is your body. The body takes orders from the mind, not the reverse. And the mind takes orders from your heart. The best spiritual life coaches can help you to become heart-centered by accessing your heart-brain and learning how to think with your heart. Then you’ll be tapping into the true power of intention. The best online spiritual life coaching can help you change the way you think so that you can subsequently change your life. It’s that simple.

    http://www.jasonlincolnjeffers.com/

    #19958

    AmyBe
    Participant

    $150 an hour is way too rich for my blood. I’d rather spend the money on getting myself some decent socks or helping out a friend, or hell, ordering sushi or something. 😉

    and more critical..yes, I am working on, if not fully ‘putting it all together’ in my head, then making this nebulous ‘thought/whatever/thing’ more cohesive and less ..undefined..if that’s the right word..

    it’s just something I need to stew around in my head for a bit first.

    #19961

    ulvfugl
    Keymaster

    Update. I should have added more emphasis, to make it clearer, that that guy is obviously a charlatan and a con artist, because anybody honest, with integrity with experience of real life, knows it is NOT that simple.

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