Dancing with God

I think that what Tom Campbell is saying (in the video below with Dean Radin) is exceptionally interesting.

To paraphrase very crudely, your consciousness is a ‘decision space’, with multiple options available, to create reality, by collapsing the quantum wave function.

You may not be aware of all the available options, but as soon as you make a conscious choice, all other options are excluded, and that’s the reality you get. In the absence of free will making a conscious choice, the choice will be made anyway, but by the larger system of which we are all a part.

So, if I’m understanding him rightly, this is kinda analogous to taoism.

Think of your life, this moment, you’re floating in the river of time and space. You can choose to swim in your own chosen direction, as an act of conscious free will. But if you don’t choose, you’ll be carried along anyway, by the flow of the river.

Now, at around 39 minutes in, he says that this larger system ( call it Tao, if you like, although he doesn’t ) is “trying to evolve, not die”…. well, that’s a striking remark, isn’t it ? very different to the general scientific view that the Universe is pointless, purposeless, meaningless, without any teleological direction, and so on… “the system has a vested interest in us succeeding”

So. The system – remember he’s talking PHYSICS here, not religion – is ‘friendly’, it’s kinda trying to help, but it’s giving us free will, free choice, out of a range of options, at any particular moment in time, to create reality… There’s ‘fuzziness’ involved. It’s not a precise deterministic thing, like Newtonian billiard balls, or engineering mechanics, its much more like water flowing, that can splash this way or that way, but generally follows a general direction…

So that means that a person can use their own consciousness to cooperate with ( or to impede, or resist ) the  general flow of the larger system…

That’s pretty good taoism. Whether it’s pretty good physics, is hard for me to judge, not being a physicist, although his explanation appears convincing and plausible. I mean, he’s attempting a Theory Of Everything, TOE, so he’s trying to pull all our present knowledge together, which is not something many people attempt, most specialize by focussing on small patches of interest, like one piece of a jigsaw puzzle, and don’t try to see what picture all the pieces together might make.

If I’m getting it right, what he’s saying is that, what he’s calling ‘the system’ – that should probably be capitalised, System, because it’s synonymous with Universe – puts out it’s information at a speed orders of magnitude faster than the smallest thing we can measure. So, it’s doing a computation, behind the scenes of our own rather slow and clunky consciousness in our heads, where it has to ‘know’ whether we want to decide to choose this reality, that reality, or some other reality. In the absence of any conscious choice, the system chooses for us.

So, for us to cooperate with this ( rather friendly, benign !) system ( which wants to evolve, not die ) we have to be empty, listening, in the moment, here and now, paying attention to the little clues and nudges that we can perceive… but we also need to know what we want to do… that is, we have free will, so what reality do we want ? 

I mean, to put this into mythos terms, it’s kinda like Dancing with God… Who is leading ? who is following ? You have to put ego right out of the way, and feel what your partner wants, and let your partner know what you want, because God is kinda blindfold, needing your eyes to do the fine tuning, and your mind to provide feedback…. that’s not a problem for God, because God is checking in billions of times every nanosecond, to get updates on what your consciousness is deciding, and then creating the relevant reality, by collapsing the wave function…

That’s my take at this point :-) Not at all sure that Tom Campbell would like my interpretation, and I have not even listened to the entire discussion yet…

(PS. Don’t be put off by the cheesy intro to the videos, they’re Americans, they can’t help it.)

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44 Responses to Dancing with God

  1. ulvfugl says:

    IS CONSCIOUSNESS A NESESSARY PART OF THE UNIVERSE? In the realm of Quantum Physics observation and measurement seems to be key in the transformation of supposition (possibility) to waveform collapse (observed physical reality). These types of observations can be performed by the simplest act of someone physically watching for an event to occur.


  2. Simeon Ayres says:

    Very interesting Wolfbird . Really stretches my humble little mind . Im wondering of all those futures and possibilities that we hold in side in these tiny moments . For a long time i have been content to be carried along by the river of this conciousness.Mindfull of the moment and the space that the moment arrises in . Free will was just a playfull idea. Now i am not so sure . This is somthing colossal in here , and it suggests a whole new level of watching .Perhaps if we are quiet enough then it really is possible to cooperate with neccessity .not just cooperate but to direct . what this also suggests is that the door ,is through becoming concious. Through awareness .

  3. ulvfugl says:

    Hi Simeon, nice to see you are still around 🙂

    I think this stuff stretches everyone, no matter how smart.

    I’ve been meaning to write more here, but distracted by stuff elsewhere.

    I’m not sure where I stand re Tom Campbell’s thinking yet. I don’t like his notion of it all being a simulation. I can’t accept that part. The problem with it is, like when I was a kid, and puzzled about the brain, and the authoritative voices of science said ‘It’s just like a telephone exchange’ because that was the handy off-the-shelf metaphor of the day, the modern technology of that time. Completely wrong, of course, in retrospect. Then it became computers, so ‘The brain is like a computer’. And now, because we understand computer simulations, ‘reality’, ‘the Universe’, is a simulation… No, I don’t accept that, I don’t like mechanistic reductionist thinking that implies a final understanding. Also, I object that it diminishes and limits our conception of what we are.

    But he does have some very good points, and I find him pleasant and stimulating to listen to….

  4. ulvfugl says:

    According to the Buddha our planet consists of six parallel “levels” of existence, or six bio-zones. If we look at this from our human perspective, we can, for example, talk of the mineral realm, the vegetable realm, the animal realm and the human realm. But is that all? According to the Sages, there is also a twilight or astral realm parallel with the vegetable realm, which is called the ghost realm. This is not a terribly bad zone to experience, but it does seem to be a place of great longing and considerable confusion. The mental state of this ghost realm is dream like, grey, vegetative, and filled with a yearning hunger. There are better places indeed to find oneself after death, and indeed, the sages say that one such place is the superior astral, or “heavenly” realm, where the consciousness emerges as a shining spirit called an angel, or Deva.

    Angels are classified, in Buddhism, into two categories. What we might call inferior angels and superior angels. In Christianity these two orders are known as angels and archangels. In Judaism they have long been called beni-Elohim (sons of the gods) and Elohim (gods). The ancient Buddhist terminology is very close to the latter, since in Buddhism we call these spirits Devaputra (also called Asuras), which literally means “sons of the Devas,” and Devas (or Suras). The word “deva” or “sura” literally means a “shining being”.

    Where do the Devas live? Those adepts who can see with clairvoyant sight the higher vibrational levels, experience the Devas as luminous, vaguely humanoid forms of intelligence, seemingly abiding in the mountains and in forest groves or in ethereal paradises. In most cases, however, these shining spiritual beings appear to live “above” the physical plane; when we experience them, they seem to “come down” to our plane, so as to commune with us. Temples and shrines are also viewed as places where these Devas appear to come down to earth, as if in a sense these sacred “power places” are inter-dimensional portals between the physical and nonphysical world.

    After death, according to the Buddhist view, a being can take birth in any of the six realms. Thus, in one’s next existence, once death has occurred to the body, you might find yourself emerging into a fresh luminous existence as an Asura-spirit in a heaven-like realm of color, scent and musical rhythm. Or, if tortured by unresolved issues from harmful actions which one has done, you may emerge as a dark, violent Demonic-spirit, in the discordant realm described as hell. There are six possible destinies for the consciousness of one who has just died.

    Now, these six destinies or bio-zones of this our planetary world, according to the Tibetan system, are as follows:

    Lha (Skt: deva) – superior Shining Ones, or archangel realm
    Lha-ma-yin (Skt: asura) – inferior Shining Ones, or angel realm
    Mi (Skt: nara) – the Human realm
    Du-do (Skt: Tiryak) – the Animal realm
    Yi-dag (Skt: preta) – the Ghost realm = Vegetable realm
    Nyal-kham (Skt: Naraka) – the Hell realm = Mineral realm
    It may be noted that the Lha and Lha-ma-yin dwell in what people of different cultures have all described as “heaven realms.” The humans and animals abide together in what to us is the “physical realm”. And ghosts and demons apparently roam what might be called “the lower astral” domain.

    When animal’s die, they too may become elemental spirits chained to the physical location where death occurred. These unseen entities are the Elementals spoken of by occultists and clairvoyants. These are the fairies and sprites of folklore. In Tibetan teachings they are sometimes categorized as follows:

    Dri-za (Skt: gandharva) – sylphs, air elementals
    Namkha’lding (Skt: garuda) – phoenix, fire elementals
    kLu (Skt: naga) – dragons, water elementals
    gNod-sbyin (Skt: yakshas) – gnomen, earth elementals
    But there are many other types of elemental spirits mentioned in Buddhist lore, too. There are the Mi-‘am-c’i (Kinnara), or lovely celestial musicians, and the Srin-po (Rakshasa) which appear as dangerous fire elementals. There are ‘Byung-po (Bhuta) and harmful Sa-za (pisaca), spirits of the jungle, the cremation grounds and the forest, which can cause misfortune, or disease, or insanity. And there are the Gyalpo and the Tsen, powerful ghosts of slain heroes and Lama-sorcerers, who have died unfulfilled or with a curse on their lips; it is said their thirst for power and vengeance lives on.

    Do these good and evil spirits (lha-dre) actually exist, or are they but the imagination of a more primitive culture? The decision has to be yours. Science does not appear to have proved, as yet, the existence of parallel realms, invisible to our telescopes, microscopes and measuring devices. As one grows spiritually, an awareness of disincarnate and non-incarnate entities is one of the features that the mystic develops. But the truth of this experience cannot be proven nor demonstrated to the skeptic. It is simply something that one has to experience and judge for oneself — no one else can say whether it is true or not.


  5. ulvfugl says:

    But science is beginning, belatedly, to do some serious investigation…

  6. ulvfugl says:

    The Ainu are the largest indigenous population of Japan. They descended from the first peoples on the Japanese archipelago, commonly referred to as the Jômon, who migrated there more than 10,000 years ago. Some Ainu populations developed large-scale sedentary communities in the northern part of the archipelago that thrived until the migrations and influence from the Asian mainland began to dominate about 1,200 years ago. In Ainu shamanism, classical shaman-type and latter-day mediums once coexisted.

    According to oral traditions, ancient Ainu male shamans had characteristics similar to those discussed by Michael Winkelman (see page 12 this issue) in that they were social leaders who provided divination and healing. Ainu shamans, particularly those in Sakhalin1, had primary roles in ceremonies that often lasted all night and involved the entire local community, during which participants danced, played musical instruments, and chanted to produce an altered state of consciousness (ASC). ASC allowed the shamans to perform various types of “miracles,” including diagnosis and prophecy. In ancient times, Ainu shamans would fly, transform into animals, have animal kin, control spirits, and assist in hunting, fishing, and wars. In many Ainu epic poems, heaven-sent culture heroes such as okikurumi, considered half-human and half-god, achieve full adulthood and leadership through death-and-rebirth experiences. Sisters or female allies, who also foresee things and perform miracles, often assist these heroes.

    Ainu Shamanism: A Forbidden Path to Universal Knowledge

  7. Robin Datta says:

    The Monroe Institute Lecture
    by Thomas Warren Campbell Jr :

  8. ulvfugl says:

    ‘As a professor of philosophy who has written several books looking at issues of consciousness, soul, and survival, Michael Grosso chose to present on the subject of T theory, or transmission theory. Although most contemporary research into the subject of consciousness assumes that it is by-product of the human brain, Grosso believes that there is plenty of evidence to suggest that this reductionistic model is inadequate. During his presentation he pointed out that there is a long tradition in the West of thinkers who believed that the brain and body serve not as the originators of consciousness but rather as its transmitter.’


  9. ulvfugl says:

    Struggling a bit here, because this thread has a parallel conversation… but this relates to what I said above to Simeon..

    “The workings of the human mind have been historically described as metaphors of contemporary information technology. In ancient Greece memory was like a “seal ring in wax” and in the 19th century the mind was seen as a telegraph switching circuit. In this century the classical computer has been the dominant metaphor for the brain’s activities. If quantum computation becomes a technological reality, consciousness may inevitably be seen as some form of quantum computation. Indeed enigmatic features of consciousness have already led to proposals for quantum computation in the brain.”


  10. ulvfugl says:

    Into a soul absolutely free
    From thoughts and emotion,
    Even the tiger finds no room
    To insert its fierce claws

    One and the same breeze passes
    Over the pines on the mountain
    And the oak tress in the valley;
    And why do they give different notes

    No thinking, no reflecting,
    Perfect emptiness;
    Yet therein something moves,
    Following its own course

    The eye sees it,
    But no hand can take hold of it –
    The moon in the stream


  11. ulvfugl says:

    In Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements (Lulu, 2006), Thomas Yuschak describes how a combination of galantamine and alpha-GPC (glycerophosphocholine) can help induce powerful lucid dreams and out-of-body experiences, and how other substances can be used to support this.


  12. ulvfugl says:

    Here’s a quote from Stan Grof, of whom I’m a fan :

    “Industrial civilization is the only human group that has this attitude toward these experiences. Ancient and native cultures held these states in great esteem and spent a lot of time and energy developing safe and powerful ways of inducing them. What I believe happened is that at the time of the Industrial and Scientific Revolution, major discoveries were turned into technological inventions, which brought on a tremendous adoration of reason. In fact, for some years during the French Revolution, Notre Dame in Paris was called the Temple of Reason. When this happened, everything that was not rational was seen as irrational, as a kind of embarrassing leftover from humanity’s infancy in the Dark Ages.

    We are now sort of a mature, civilized, rational people, and we can see that everything that is not rational is not irrational but transrational. Mystics can function perfectly rationally in everyday life, but they have also experienced dimensions of reality that are normally hidden and incorporated them into their worldview. They value the experience and source of such powerful insights.

    I think what’s happening now with transpersonal psychology and consciousness research is that we are recognizing our mistake—that we have somehow thrown out the baby with the bathwater by rejecting these states. Now psychologists are slowly recognizing the value of this special subcategory of experiences. There are others that still should be considered pathology, of course, such as delirium tremens or uremia. These are not holotropic states but disoriented states in which you don’t know who you are, where you are, what is happening, what year it is, and so on. But that’s not what happens in holotropic states. In holotropic states, you have a kind of double orientation. Swiss psychiatrist Eugen Bleuler talked about it as doppelte Buchführung, which means “double bookkeeping.” You have one foot in ordinary reality and the other foot in other realities.”


  13. ulvfugl says:

    The “ka” is a very complex part of the symbolism in ancient Egyptian mythology and represents several things: the ka is a symbol of the reception of the life powers from each man from the gods, it is the source of these powers, and it is the spiritual double that resides with every man.

    The ka as a spiritual double was born with every man and lived on after he died as long as it had a place to live. The ka lived within the body of the individual and therefore needed that body after death. This is why the Egyptians mummified their dead. If the body decomposed, their spiritual double would die and the deceased would lose their chance for eternal life. An Egyptian euphemism for death was “going to one’s ka”. After death the ka became supreme. Kings thus claimed to have multiple kas. Rameses II announced that he had over 20.

    The ka was more than that though. When the ka acted, all was well, both spiritually and materially. Sin was called “an abomination of the ka”. The ka could also be seen as the conscience or guide of each individual, urging kindness, quietude, honor and compassion. In images and statues of the ka, they are depicted as their owner in an idealized state of youth, vigor and beauty. The ka is the origin and giver of all the Egyptians saw as desirable, especially eternal life.

    Kas resided in the gods as well. Egyptians often placated the kas of the deities in order to receive favors. The divine kas also served as guardians. Osiris was often called the ka of the pyramids.

    The god Khnemu who was said to create each man out of clay on his potter’s wheel also molded the ka at the same time.


  14. ulvfugl says:

    “WHERE does the mind reside? It is a question that has occupied the best brains for thousands of years. The answer remains as elusive as ever, according to neurologists who have demonstrated that a patient retains a sense of self despite lacking three regions of the brain thought to be essential for self-awareness. But other researchers disagree with their conclusion.”


  15. ulvfugl says:

    Interesting pieces from a series of lectures, how the historical concepts of soul relate to modern psychology :

    Christianity’s commitment to dualism meant that Aristotle’s functional definition of the soul would not catch on in European thought, even when Aristotle’s philosophy and science were assimilated into the university curricula of the high Middle Ages. However, his treatment of the workings of the soul were accepted, but an attempt was made to see them as workings of the immortal divine soul of Plato and Christian religion. This will soon lead, as we shall see, to two related problems. The first is called by philosophers the homunculus [“little man”] problem. Because the soul is the essence of who you are, it is tempting to think of the soul as a mini-you living in your head, giving the body orders. But who is in the head of the mini-you? a mini-mini-you? with a mini-mini-mini-you inside, and so on absurdly ad infinitum? A further difficulty arises when theologians and medieval natural philosophers had to identify the Christian soul with Aristotle’s rational soul (more technically, with Aristotle’s passive mind, or agent intellect, but that is not important here). Memory is important to your personal identity; without it you would literally not know who you are. But because memory is part of the animal sensitive soul, Christian doctrine has to exclude it from immortality. It then follows that if only your rational soul is immortal, then you cannot have personal immortality, only immortality as pure thought without sensation, movement, or memory of your life on earth. These issues will loom large for Descartes, arguably the most influential philosopher-psychologist of all.


  16. ulvfugl says:

    Parapsychologist Dr. Barry Taff has been investigating anomalous phenomenon for 43 years, and has investigated over 4,500 cases of ghosts, hauntings and poltergeists.

  17. ulvfugl says:

    “Somewhere along the line, especially in the West, as the benefits of tool-making (control) became more obvious, there came the growing hunger for orderliness. We began to hunger and thirst after a universe ordered as neatly as the bedrooms that existed only in our mothers’ dreams. Wanting more certainty (control) than could be found in the mystical, and finding that certainty, it seemed, in the observable world of every day, the Western worldview developed a set of rules governing what could and could not be Real. To understand Reality, one had only to go by the rules. One could study only Things. We began to clean up our room. And so it happened that over time we became entranced, and began to believe that the taxonomies were the universe’s idea and not our own.”


  18. ulvfugl says:

    “What is the implication once the truth is realized that both the human body and the physical world are actually images taking place within the individual Soul? I have posed this question to several people over the years who simply couldn’t understand it. Their misunderstanding stemmed from the simple fact that they had been so deeply indoctrinated into modern culture and linear/reductive thought processes that the very idea seemed non-sensical to them.

    Most people today (I’d say well over 98%) perceive themselves as an individual consciousness inhabiting a slowly decaying human body. These are the only two perspectives. There is no third option. One represents the proper orientation of the human being, and the other represents the dis-oriented view of the modern individuality, which has effectively entombed itself in a flesh and blood casket from which they believe there can be no escape.”


  19. ulvfugl says:

    “Things change according to the stance we adopt towards them, the type of attention we pay to them, the disposition we hold in relation to them. This is important because the most fundamental difference between the hemispheres lies in the type of attention they give to the world. But it’s also important because of the widespread assumption in some quarters that there are two alternatives: either things exist ‘out there’ and are unaltered by the machinery we use to dig them up, or to tear them apart (naïve realism, scientific materialism); or they are subjective phenomena which we create out of our own minds, and therefore we are free to treat them in any way we wish, since they are after all, our own creations (naïve idealism, post-modernism).

    These positions are not by any means as far apart as they look, and a certain lack of respect is evident in both. In fact I believe there is something that exists apart from ourselves, but that we play a vital part in bringing it into being.

    A central theme of this book is the importance of our disposition towards the world and one another, as being fundamental in grounding what it is that we come to have a relationship with, rather than the other way round. The kind of attention we pay actually alters the world: we are, literally, partners in creation. This means we have a grave responsibility, a word that captures the reciprocal nature of the dialogue we have with whatever it is that exists apart from ourselves.

    I will look at what philosophy in our time has had to say about these issues. Ultimately I believe that many of the disputes about the nature of the human world can be illuminated by an understanding that there are two fundamentally different ‘versions’ delivered to us by the two hemispheres, both of which can have a ring of authenticity about them, and both of which are hugely valuable; but that they stand in opposition to one another, and need to be kept apart from one another – hence the bihemispheric structure of the brain.

    How do we understand the world, if there are different versions of it to reconcile? Is it important which models and metaphors we bring to bear on our reality? “

    My bold.

    From the Introduction (pdf)


  20. ulvfugl says:

    “Tengers, spirits, human souls, the fire and water are the elements of the vast arch of the sky. The sun and the moon are Tenger’s eyes. The sun is the fire, the moon is the water, this being one of the oldest religions and cultural traditions in our world. The Buryats and Mongols have understood that one of the important things to keep the world in balance is to revere respect to the sky, water and earth. The world is full of spirits and souls in all things and in all places. All animals and plants have spirits (souls) like we ourself have. The Mongolian word tegsh describes the condition of being in balance with all of them.

    It is essential to maintain a correct way of living by being respectful and human (hun) to all these spirits (souls). The world will then be in balance and this will maximize our power (our windhorse – our psychic power), hiimori. Heaven and Earth with all of their spirits in nature and our ancestors will provide everything we need and protect us human beings. Shamans play an important role in restoring balance in our world.

    The universe of the Mongols can be visualized by a circle, not only in the three dimensions, but also in time itself. Everything has a circular motion, the path of the sun from day to day, the cycle of time from year to year, and the cycle of all living spirits as they return to earth to be reborn again and again, the circle of the axes with the four directions and the center of the world: the axes to the upper world, the Eternal Heavens and down to the lower world, the Mother Earth. In a shaman’s journeys the shaman can climb up the World Tree (the toroo of the world tree) or fly to the upper world, travel down with the spirit river to the lower world (the world river enters the middle world from its sources in the upper world), or the shaman can simply find a tunnel (channel) to follow it. The Dagur Mongols in Inner Mongolia used the word solongo (rainbow) for the shamans’ power dreams, which means that the shaman may be travelling in his sleep over the rainbow to the upper world.”


  21. ulvfugl says:

    Wonderful stuff….

    “In the year 112 AD, Pliny the Younger—Roman governor of Bithynia (now northern Turkey)—faced a problem: An obscure Jewish sect called “Christianity” had begun to spread through the region, resulting in numerous complaints from locals and calls for the immediate execution of those who refused to worship the Roman gods. Seeking assistance on how to deal with this “wretched cult,” Pliny wrote the following letter—a letter which remains one of the earliest written accounts of Roman conflict with Christians—to Roman Emperor Trajan and asked who to punish, and to what extreme. Trajan’s reply also follows.”


  22. ulvfugl says:

    “Far from being healthy, the argument could be made that modern pagan witchcraft is already on the wane. The lack of fire is evident in the dearth of young people at this, and many other events. Modern pagan witchcraft seems irrelevant to the concerns of their lives, it is tangential to their struggles, which are about to become immeasurably harder.

    We are not in the midst of an extinction crisis, or the death of the oceans, we are far past the tipping point. Witchcraft must respond to this or it is empty escapism. I have been assertive in expressing this and will continue to do so, see more here and the blog entry Question 13. Our future is not one of pastoral bliss, but of industrial collapse, famine and war. This future is far nearer than we dread. We are in crisis, ecological, social, political and spiritual: yet I see precious little of this communicated in the world of witchcraft, which in assessing the legacy of the great and good of its founders risks becoming irrelevant in the here and now.

    My lineage is diffferent, and in keeping with the stated position of Ronald Hutton, equally viable. For me Witchcraft is neither ‘pagan’ nor a ‘religion’. It is explicitly grounded in opposition, revolution, the land, the European spirit tradition, and yes, sex, drugs and ecstasy. It does not apologise. It is outside of the mainstream culture which is raping and destroying the world. It fights back.

    There is another more uncomfortable history which we should not excise. The witch or shaman is an ambivalent figure. They break taboos. They go to places that others cannot, and miraculously return. They curse and kill as well as cure. You should be afraid of them. “


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