Meini Hirion. Some mystery about stones.

So, dear readers. A change of format.

Rather than writing an essay, and then posting it, and then putting whatever I find of interest into the blog comments, and then repeating… this now is an ongoing ‘work in progress’ which will roll out as it gets done.

This is the 93rd blog post. There are between 150 – 200 visits every day. Several thousand names registered. As many followers may only check the blog, say, once a week, I guess that means that I have a few hundred regular readers.

So, thank you all, for your attention. It’s an honour. Let’s see how many remain after I put you through all this stuff 🙂 A  few hardcore fans and handful of special branch police perhaps… 🙂


Anyway, allow me to introduce you to this new idea.


A couple of posts back, I mentioned that the ancient Greek fellow called Eratosthenes had managed to calculate the circumference of the Earth.

He lived c. 276 BC – c. 195/194 BC. So that’s about 2,200 years ago, and although he’s always spoken of as a Greek, he was actually born in what is now Libya.

Here is his wiki page where you can learn how he measured the Earth, also that

Eratosthenes believed there was good and bad in every nation and criticized Aristotle for arguing that humanity was divided into Greeks and barbarians, and that the Greeks should keep themselves racially pure. As he aged he contracted ophthalmia, becoming blind around 195 BC. Losing the ability to read and to observe nature plagued and depressed him, leading him to voluntarily starve himself to death. He died in 194 BC at the age of 82 in his beloved Alexandria.

So he was one of the very many very remarkable people of that period. If we were not such a flawed species, and had continued making progress in studying, in the manner that he did, we could easily have colonised Mars long ago, and made this world a delightful place for all its inhabitants.

Instead, there are always individuals, and social forces, which have prevailed and destroyed any chance of that happening, because they have sought power and wealth and have had no respect for this Earth and their fellows, so there have been endless wars and the libraries have been burned, over and over again. And now we are where we are, and can see, that nothing has been learned.

So, then I learned of this fellow Abū al-Rayhān Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Bīrūnī previously unknown to me, who

…devised his own method of determining the radius of the earth by means of the observation of the height of a mountain and carried it out at Nandana in Pind Dadan Khan (present-day Pakistan).

Here’s his wiki info

Al-Biruni is regarded as one of the greatest scholars of the medieval Islamic era and was well versed in physics, mathematics, astronomy, and natural sciences, and also distinguished himself as a historian, chronologist and linguist.[9] He was conversant in Khwarezmian, Persian, Arabic, Sanskrit, and also knew Greek, Hebrew and Syriac. He spent a large part of his life in Ghazni in modern-day Afghanistan, capital of the Ghaznavid dynasty which was based in what is now central-eastern Afghanistan. In 1017 he traveled to the Indian subcontinent and authored “Tarikh Al-Hind” (History of India) after exploring the Hindu faith practised in India. He is given the titles the “founder of Indology“. He was an impartial writer on custom and creeds of various nations, and was given the title al-Ustadh (“The Master”) for his remarkable description of early 11th-century India.[9] He also made contributions to Earth sciences, and is regarded as the “father of geodesy” for his important contributions to that field, along with his significant contributions to geography.

So what’s mostly of interest there, about a thousand years later, and a different method of calculating the circumference of the Earth.

And I learned that from a forum comment, which I posted in the previous thread, which had this somewhat startling claim, which I have bolded…

To stumble across the idea (of a round world) by chance needs an unusual set of geographical features. The only location I have found that the idea can both be proven and stumbled across by chance is at Preseli: At this location, Neolithic constructions of unknown age are located in precisely the correct locations to show how this might have been found.

Immediately below these locations is the possible quarry that some archaeologists say is the source of the bluestones used at Stonehenge. Using the Geocentric Hypothesis, Stonehenge is a model of our Cosmos which shows, amongst other things, that the Earth is round (the circle of Stones representing our world).

This was posted by someone called jonm, about whom I know nothing, other than his info page, and that he appears to be writing a book on the topic

Here is the thread

[Note to self. Many points there that could be followed up]

[Note to readers. As I said, this is ‘work in progress’. 🙂 It may veer into, um,  incoherency. I shall not be surprised if it does… I shall be surprised if it doesn’t, ahahaha]

So. A ‘What if… ?’  type of thought alighted upon me….

Long before Eratosthenes, here in Wales.

In the Bronze Age, Wales had the largest copper mine in the whole world, on the north coast, at the Great Orme. They mined ore there for at least 1500 years, it is a vast complex.

What did that mean ? It meant they had trade contacts to everywhere within reach, and they were incredibly wealthy, because everybody who was into the Bronze Age, meaning the latest technology, needed what they had, the copper. To be mixed with tin and maybe other substances, arsenic, whatever. But copper was vital, essential.

Good as gold, near enough.

Which leads to

3000 B.C. – 1833

The Mold Cape was buried only a matter of miles away from the largest Bronze Age copper mine in northwest Europe, the Great Orme. The copper from here, and the tin from Cornwall, would have provided the ingredients for the vast majority of British bronze objects. The peak of activity at the Great Orme mine has been dated between 1900 and 1600 BC. Recent analysis of the gold-working techniques, and the decorative style of the cape, dates the burial to this very period. So we can only guess, but it’s likely that the wearers of this extraordinary object were linked to the mine, which would have been a source of great wealth, and a major trading centre for the whole of north-west Europe

Cape is unearthed

1833 – 1835

Workmen quarrying for stone in an ancient burial mound in 1833 found this unique ceremonial gold cape, which remains unparalleled to this day. The mound lay in a field named Bryn yr Ellyllon (the Fairies’ or Goblins’ Hill). I takes several years to be pieced together

Reverend C.B. Clough writes about the discovery

1833 – 1835

The isolated location of the burial site, near the village of Mold, not far from the north coast of Wales, meant that the wider world could easily have continued in ignorance of its existence. That this didn’t happen, owes everything to the curiosity of a local vicar, Reverend C.B. Clough, who wrote an account of the find that aroused the interest of the Society of Antiquaries, hundreds of miles away in London.

There’s an amazing story to go with that, somewhere. Someone had a dream or vision that there was a prince or something, buried in that Fairy Field with the gold cape…. another thing to check out…

Hammered from a single ingot of gold, about the size of a golf ball.

So never mind what the Greeks and the Egyptians were doing, these guys in Wales had the wealth, the money, and they had the connections, to everywhere, and they had the time…. the leisure…

So what did they do ?

Did they decide it might be interesting to measure the circumference of the Earth ?

Meini Hirion, Welsh, literally, ‘stones long’, the standing stones.

” This is the world: the lying likeness of

Our strips of stuff that tatter as we move

Loving and being loth;

The dream that kicks the buried from

their sack

And lets their trash be honoured as the quick.

This is the world. Have faith. “

Dylan Thomas.

Now we must backtrack, some autobiography, the miasma of my past life.

Once upon a time, long ago, in the dark time before there even was an internet, before there even were computers you could buy, when telephones were black wheely things that you had to wind up with your finger to generate sparks, like a sort of… well,never mind, ask… no you can’t, they are all dead by now… it was that long ago.

You know, this is Wales. If you live here, you just took it for granted.

The whole place is littered with prehistoric relics. Everywhere.

I’ve lived in many different places in Wales, I lived above Colwyn Bay for quite a while, high up, in a caravan, looking straight out across at the Great Orme. At that time, nobody had any idea it was riddled with scores of miles of prehistoric tunnels.

I was sitting in a field. As you do. And there was a stone. And I thought, well, there, so often is. And why is that ? What are they doing ? What are they for ? And the farmer said that they are there for the cows to rub themselves on.

Well, yes. Welsh farmers know everything, of course they do. Except if you look in the library, in a book, it says ‘ritual monuments from the Neolithic and Bronze Age, or possibly boundary markers’. Not much mention at all of cows rubbing. There may be some rationale to the theory, but the trouble is, Welsh farmers inhabit the same sort of imaginary territory as Kafka’s Great Mole and the Schoolteacher story, mentioned recently.

You see, cattles and horses do like to rub themselves, and they are prone to push gates and fence posts, and so it might be a sort of means to keep them away from doing that, giving them a more tempting target, so to speak. But then a tree would be quite satisfactory and adequate.

Why wouldn’t the farmer just leave a sturdy tree ? Why go to the trouble of erecting a great big stone ? I mean, the logic breaks down, when there are a lot of trees, right there in the field, as well as the stones, that serve just as well, if any large animal feels in need of some rubbing.

You can never be sure how much serious thought the farmer has devoted to the question, can you. He may, in fact, not be very serious at all. He may, quite possibly, be keeping a straight face, whilst meaning the answer as a joke, to test you, as a trial of your judgement and common sense.  Many of these farmers live their whole lives in close proximity with these stones. But are they to be trusted, when to comes to knowing them ?

Anyway, let’s move on. The archaeologists. I found a report. One large stone in South Wales somewhere, [I’ve forgotten where, if I ever find the reference….] was buried under blown sand, so very well preserved site, and what they found was interesting. It was like a sort of shrine. A large paved area all around it, and a sort of flimsy wooden hut affair, as if perhaps some sort of priest-like person had lived beside the stone, as an attendant, and maybe people had come with offerings, or to consult, possibly divinations of some sort.

But back to biography. I sort of got more and more curious about these ancient stone monuments, in a casual sort of way, over several decades. I kept seeing them in fields, from the car, from the train, from the bus. I mixed with freaks and mushroom heads who told me about dowsing and ley lines and visitors from Alpha Centauri and the Crop Circles and every kind of weirdness that was going on. But I had my own preoccupations, I never had a chance to really get absorbed into the subject.

But then I met a woman, as one does, and got involved, and she’d been studying this stuff – ‘Earth mysteries’ – for years, and had masses of photos and gave me slide shows and jabbered on and on and on for hours, all night and day. It was all very interesting and intriguing. So I got somewhat better educated in the subject.

Again, this was long before the internet.

So then, by a series of bizarre happenings, I moved to this part of Wales, 25 + years ago. And the density of these megaliths is so remarkable that it is mindboggling.

And so, like many others, I was provoked to do a study, to try and get a better understanding as to what the heck they are all about. I bought books, and maps, I went around and took photos, and amassed a huge pile of information.

So I have all this stuff, and I studied it very intensively for a few years, and then, I met a woman, as one does, and she gave me a stiff talking to. She told me it was an elitist indulgence, and that I should get back to the battle to save the world. She was a lady with a forceful personality, not the sort of woman you’d want to be on the wrong side of, in terms of politics, or anything else, if….. well, you’ll catch my drift, no doubt, I don’t need to explain the dynamics of human cohabitation here, do I.

So, that was the end of the stones research project, which has languished for years, whilst I was busy attending to other things. But as ‘the world’ is now beyond ‘saving’, I am taking a break, and having a look at what I have. Piles of stuff. Interesting stuff.

In a nutshell. Someone, a very long time ago, erected stones, masses of them, all over the Preseli area. For some reason. Nobody knows why. So, that is the puzzle to the solved. There are clues. Amazing clues. Very weird.

So that is the introduction. That is the easy part. Now I have to explain to you what I found. This is the much harder part, seeing as it was more than twenty years ago, and nothing is orderly, and the subject matter is subtle… but here goes… we shall see how it turns out…


Here is a photo is a photo of a fairly typical standing stone. This one I can see from my home. The view is from the stone looking back at my house and this mountain, years ago, when I first began studying these things. There are thousands of them, all over Wales, and then, as you’ll learn, if you check out the Megalithic Portal site, all over the British Isles, and then all over Europe and around the world.

Why people put them up is mostly uncertain, various different reasons are likely, and also when, is often unknown, they seem to cover a huge time span. But I began with this one.

Trefach (Helen) copy

So, this particular stone is a neighbour, I can wave to it, across the valley, I can see it most days. I made a series of portraits of it, and meditated upon them. Being an ardent and dedicated zen practitioner, I addressed it in a stern vocative and demanded that it disclose its secrets.

I got hold of the archaeological records for the county, which disclosed that there had once been a whole complex of monuments there, but the farmers had destroyed them. This has happened everywhere. Less so here, because it has been a relatively poor and undeveloped region. But it raises the question, how much has been lost ? What percentage are we seeing ?

It also stirs in me the deep passion, that never leaves, what an infernally crass, ignorant, stupid culture we have made. One which respects nothing whatsoever, and all this because of the diabolical money lenders. Rothschild’s policy, after WW2, to ‘modernise’ agriculture. Destroy the ecology and the archaeology along with it. So a few filthy rich bankers could get richer, centuries of irretrievable knowledge was thrown away in a couple of decades. But I must resist a rant.

So what did this stone have to say for itself ?

Untitled 2

[I should say, that I am reminiscing, I did all this more than twenty years ago, children have been born, grown up, got married, and had children since then. Most likely many other people have researched this stuff, and I’m entirely unaware of what’s gone on. There’s thousands and thousands of threads I could be reading in an effort to catch up. But, as I said, for now, I have masses of material here, all kinds of things, I don’t even know what I have, I can’t remember half of it. So, I’m working my way into all this first, and we’ll see where it goes. It’s bound to overlap and cross connect to much more…]

The first ‘Eureka !’ was that, matching the top of the stone, to the top of the mountain, gives one an exact perfect compass bearing for due North.

Well. Hmph. You could say. That could be just random accidental chance. Yes. It could.

Or not. It’s interesting. Look at the profile, there’s the sort of < at the left, that meets the near horizon line, and also an interesting shoulder or step on the right side.

So to cut to the chase, I took lots of pics of lots of stones, to study the profiles. I mean, it was very exciting, because the very next one I came to, just up the hill, has the exact same step or shoulder. And then another one !

You know what the spooks say. First time, chance. Second time, coincidence. Third time, enemy action.

Picture 2 copy

Here are six different standing stones, and it is quite plain to see, at first glance, that they all have some common features.

It is very easy to notice this NOW, the way I have presented them. However, curiously, at that time, twenty years ago, nobody in the entire history of archaeology ever seems to have noticed.

But there we are. Once you get the idea, seems to me, we have some sort of human – what shall we call it ? – sign language ? or code, or some such.

Seems to me, that whoever erected the stones, has shaped the stones.

Either they selected stones that were already close to the shapes that they wanted, and modified them a bit, or they found any large stone, and then modified it a lot, to suit their requirements. That they were masters of stonework, nobody questions, although it seems that actual knowledge about their techniques  is very sparse. I could find almost nothing, but as I said, that was decades ago, I expect more is known now.

For the moment, I’ll leave that. I have so much more. I just wish to convey the idea, that what matters, is looking at the stone, from a particular view. Then, you ‘read’ the outline, the profile, against the background of the landscape. This then imparts information.

This is the crux of the matter, really.

So then, what we need to establish, what information is it, and why ? And what correlates with what ?

Now, I attempted to do this. I tried every mind boggling hypothesis that I could come up with, and it’s worse than quantum physics, really. 🙂

So I just kept on collecting more data, in the hope that some evidence would offer better clues. As I said, I have piles of stuff here. What I will do, is post a few interesting bits as I dig them out. If you have now got the basic idea, about how to view the stones, that’s all that matters to start with.


This is a different class or category of stone, much smaller, and one of a pair. And, if you inspect the top, you can see, it appears to have a symmetrical notch.

And there is a reason for that notch. When you sight it, like aiming a rifle, using the point on the top of the partner stone of the pair, it gives you the view below.

Apologies for the poor quality of this image, I must have a better one somewhere, but it demonstrates the principle. Which is, that we have an instrument which gives a precision bearing on the horizon line.


So what is that for ? At the time, I thought it must be to view some sort of celestial event, such as the appearance of a star, or the Moon at some significant date, or some such.

But I do not have any definitive answer. They were surveying SOMETHING !

How come those dopey professional archaeologists have never noticed any of this stuff ? How come none of it ever gets properly protected ? The whole area is littered with all kinds of stuff, but when you read the records, there used to be a heck of a lot more that has gone.

You are not persuaded ? You think that these two stones could just be there for the animals to rub themselves, and the notch is purely chance, ulvfugl’s deranged and tormented imagination ? Hahahaha

Well, I have to admit, I never thought that they might have been calculating the circumference of the Earth. I mean here. On this hill.


Look at this one.


The stone on the left is the one with the notch, the stone on the right is the one with the pointed top that fits into the notch. When you sight them, you meet the horizon line, to the right, which, I cannot recall, but I think was not exact South by modern compass, but was out by 4 degrees, or possibly more. [I’ll come across that detail eventually].

So in this photograph, which has a pleasing symmetry, you are looking exactly East, at dawn. And, if you went there every day, you could watch the sunrise move along the horizon.

At the two equinoxes, the glow of the Sun emerges out of the land and appears exactly between those two hills. After the Spring equinox it moves further each morning, to the left, North-ward, until mid summer, the Solstice, when it begins moving back.

After the autumn equinox, when it is between the two hills, it begins moving to the right each morning, until the midwinter Solstice, we are almost there.

Behind the viewer, to the West, there are also some interesting features, but leave them for now, and several other things could be said. But what I would like to do, is try and convince you, that far from being some somewhat arbitrary erection of a couple of stones, at some point on the past, by some rural oik, who had no particular purpose in mind, this is in fact a precision instrument of a high order of accomplishment.

I have a debt of gratitude to a certain woman who had studied these stones independently, and noted something most extraordinary, which is that at midday the shadow of the one touches the base of the other. Which means that an exact time can be established. I have the photos and details somewhere, but again, I have to find them in due course.

If you still have doubts, here’s some more….

I did say leave what is behind the viewer, for now. But as I’ve found it, here it is, too interesting to skip over.

You’ll see, in the right hand partner of the pair above, there is the pointed tip, and then a stepped shoulder. If you walk around that stone and look at it from the other side, this is what you see.


on Carningli

That is the top of Carningli, pleasingly symmetry, exactly West, peeping over the near horizon. Behind Carningli is about sixty miles of sea, and then Ireland, some more sea, and then America.

[Sorry about the dismal quality, this was all done with cameras made in the Stone Age.]

Here’s an enlarged view.

on C.


So this shoulder step is quite a common feature or characteristic, and sceptics could argue that it just happens, that with this type of stone, the geology happens to produce these shapes, quite naturally, the result of fractures from frost, weathering, whatever, and when the man came along and found the boulder, he’ll naturally choose the big end down, and the pointy end up, when he wants to erect a rubbing post for his oxen to chafe themselves against, that being a task that was always a high priority in days gone by.

Here you can see it again, the same stone, and this time the top of the pointer is touching the skyline of the Preselis, and with some difficulty, you can just make out some tiny lumps up there. They are the cairns where the Stonehenge bluestones were said to originate. By various archaeological experts over many decades. Before this new recent team decided that they had found the real source, the ‘quarry’, down in the valley below.


And here is a Photoshop silhouette

Penparke pair-

I’m not a great one for statistics, nor even for mathematics, or probability and chance, in general, and I do not know, really, how you could apply Bayesian statistics or any similar approach, to shapes, the shapes of stones, found on the surface of the land, thousands of years ago, and then selected, for their shape. I’ve given it thought, but if there is some way forward in that direction, it’ll need someone smarter and more proficient than myself.

But look, what are the odds ? If you were a gambling man, and betting on some deal or other.

Start with this stone. It has to be found. With that point and that step. Or else, someone has to have made that point, and that step. (And also, a partner, with a neat notch.)

And then, look at this. Remember the rifle view to the horizon ? Well, that is actually a ancient prehistoric trackway, it has been the north-south route over the Preselis for as long as people have been trekking up and down. Nobody notices anymore, because there’s a tarmac main road that cars and lorries zoom along. But for thousands of years, it was on your legs. And it is a long slog. And pack ponies. And herds of sheep and cattle and then carts and wagons.

So, of you follow that sightline, it points to where the track goes over the horizon. I do not know if that is what it was meant to do, of course. But if you keep going, over the top, down the other side, about ten miles, if I recall, across the mountains…. Guess what ?

On the exact north south line, you meet ANOTHER pair of stones. And guess what ? One of them has a profile and top that looks like this.

Maenclochog pair

What are the odds ? Seems to me the only reasonable conclusion to draw, someone shaped these stones, almost identical in profile, for a specific purpose, whatever that my have been.

But again, here in this area, we have the same tragic story. You read the county records, there used to be a whole complex of burial chambers, dolmens, standing stones, mounds, all kinds of stuff, but the farmers and others have wreaked the usual havoc and destroyed it all. 🙁

But, there we are. This is what we find. And, we must make the best of what we have, and so ulvfugl went all around, inspecting the stones, and it just got weirder and weirder.

Recall, in the previous thread, I mentioned Giraldus Cambrensis. This is the Catholic view.

Perhaps the most serious accusation levelled against Giraldus, next to the indictment of bias and dishonesty, is that wherein he is impeached of being addicted to the cult of the superstitious and the practice of witchcraft. If this be true, and Merlin would seem to have exercised a considerable sway over the mind of de Barry, then it would be vain to seek in the writings of the latter the reflex of that calm discrimination and sober balance of judgment which should characterize the historian. Finally, it may be said that the student of Irish history, by reading the works of Giraldus in the light of “Cambrensis Eversus”, cannot fail to derive a helpful knowledge of the period which they embrace.

Gerald the Welshman. Who wrote The History and Topography of Ireland. He called Stonehenge the ‘The Giant’s Dance’ because he had heard stories that giants brought the stones from Africa to Ireland, and built the monument by some accounts on Mount Kildare, and by others “at Ophela, near the castle of Nas” (O’Meara, ). Later, Gerald said, Aurelius Ambrosius, king of the Britons, had Merlin bring the stones to Britain.

Some folks are much too literal minded, left brained, when approaching this sort of info. So they dismiss it, because it does not match up neatly to the standard orthodox ‘scientific’ account of what is supposed to have happened in the past.

But it is logos and mythos, isn’t it. You have to read between the lines.

We have Malory’s Le Morte d’Arthur published in 1485 by Caxton. And in that story there is the motif of pulling the sword out of the stone. If you have that power, you become king.

For us, that tale is already 500 years old, which is ancient, and romantic.

But look, where did those guys get that idea from ?

It’s not literal truth, is it. It is not science. It’s poetic truth. Mythos. It’s about the Bronze Age. When people made stone moulds, into which they poured molten metal, to make swords and axe heads. Whoever had the knowledge of that technology was the ruler over all. Because then you could arm your soldiers and defeat your enemies, and sell those weapons and become wealthy and powerful. Just like being Steve Jobs and having the secrets of how an Apple Mac works and was made. All around pre 1000 BC when the Iron Age began, and a new, superior weapons technology was developed, which was cheaper and easier.

So the Malory story is just a faint trace of something that is some 1500 years or so old, and has been passed down through the generations.

So, when Giraldus says that he heard that giants brought the stones from Africa to Ireland, what might that mean ?

The literalists – we all know them – will imagine very very large men carrying boulders from Nigeria, and insist it could not happen. But those people are…..

Look, what it means. The IDEA, the CONCEPT, came from Africa, or from The South, and those people were Great Men. Large in character, spirit, knowledge. Not necessarily nine feet tall, although they might have been taller than the people they met.

Anyhow, let’s go with that understanding, for a while.

Europe was covered in ice. But the Sahara was fertile and lush. Around 12000 BC the glaciers begin to retreat, sea levels begin to rise, and people can begin to move north, hunting and gathering.

There are very ancient stone circles in the Sahara. All sorts of incredible stuff. Predating the Egyptian civilisation. Read the mythical history of Ireland, and the various invasions.

I’m digressing. But the idea of the stone circles. Gors Fawr. It’s nothing like Stonehenge, except that it is a circle of stones. The concept, or a related concept, is there.

I’ll refer you to the Megalithic Portal, because although I do have some pics, they cannot compare with the resources on offer there.

Relative to Stonehenge and many standing stones, the Gors Fawr stones are very small, almost like markers.

If you check out that info, you’ll notice it mentions the larger ‘outliers’, so back to my own photos of those two much larger stones.

Here is a pic of one of the pair, which has very sharp, clear angles, and shows the sort of work I was doing, trying to figure out what might be going on

G F - 1a & 1b

Gors Fawr - 1a profile

Gors Fawr,sw N.

I spent hours and hours, months and months, a manic obsessive ulvfugl, working on this crap. It was driving me mad. I was chasing the Eureka Moments. It was actually a relief when the crazy American woman collided with my life and gave me a severe savage lecture. I mean, she is a PROPER qualified anthropologist and archaeologist with all the degrees and qualifications and expertise, and she said that all I was doing was indulging bourgeouis curiosity, when what was needed was a revolution to change EVERYTHING before it was TOO LATE, and how did this work help the people in the barrios and favellas and the turtles that wanted to lay their eggs on beaches and couldn’t because of the fucking tourists and fucking pollution from the fucking luxury hotels for fucking millionaires who owned fucking corporations selling fucking weapons and and and… so I put my hands up and surrendered… 🙂 What else could I do ? She was very very beautiful. And red hair. 🙂

Funny thing, I saw her once, in a vision, many years before I met her. I told a guy I knew at the time, said ‘I had a remarkable vision of a woman’s face, in my mind’s eye, very clear, for about five minutes… never had anything quite like it’

I know, I know. This does not help anyone, or anything. It is idle curiosity. And we have a pig fucker for a prime minister, and people who address one another as ‘My noble lord, the right honourable…’ who bugger and murder little boys and lie and get away with it, and defraud the public and conceal the most disgusting conspiracies and crimes… and so I revisit all this stuff to take my mind off nuclear armageddon and the extinction of species… for a while….

So, where was I ?

I made no progress, for a long time, because every hypothesis that I applied, whilst it worked in some cases, was useless in others.

So this was fascinating, psychologically, from a zen buddhist point of view. Because I’d get tired and lose heart, and be filled with doubt. Was I just imagining all these things, or had I actually discovered something that nobody else had seen ? Because when I read the literature, there was no mention anywhere of anything like this. Confidence in your own personal judgement is something that can be removed, abstracted, from any particular case or circumstance, isn’t it. That’s a universal and fundamental human dilemma that everyone has always had to face and grapple with. Made harder if your choices, decisions, judgements, involve life, death, other people.

Look again. What do YOU think ?

There is this stone, from the first pair, that makes a sight to fit into the notch, and has the step. And then you follow that line, due south over the mountain top, down the other side, to another pair, and find the next one… (with a hawthorn bush in the way)

Untitled 3


If you look closely at this second one, (which if I recall correctly is approx 10 miles due south of the first) it appears to have scribed lines going up to the point, which could be manmade. What would be nice, would be if it had a partner with a notch, but, although it is listed as one of a pair, I think this is because there are two remaining in the field, The partner does not seem to align, I have photos somewhere but cannot find, so refer again to Megalithic Portal, although there’s not much to see there. There could well have been a notched partner for sighting, but the site has been damaged.

It would be very much better to put this question of the shape onto a solid scientific basis.

However, I confess, that is beyond my scope. I think it needs someone with fluency in topological or topographical geometry, mathematics, and statistics. But also, the nature of the substance, because it must make a difference, whether the form is composed of steel or cheese, I think.

I mean, if all stones, laying on the surface, were all regular oblongs, if equal dimensions, and composed of a similar substance, then if we found that those that had been put into an upright vertical position were always triangular, then we could safely propose that human workmanship had intervened and caused the state of affairs.

But stones come in a variety of shapes and sizes. But it is not an infinite variety, it’s actually quite limited. But we don’t know what it was like, what was available at the time.

What time ?

Well, very few standing stones have been securely dated. Those that have been properly studied by the most modern archaeological techniques, that provide things like burned nutshell or other material that can give accurate radio carbon date, from packing material used to secure the stone’s foundation when it was erected, are rarities. But they exist, and so it is generally presumed, justifiably, that they date from the Neolithic and Bronze Age, and a few from the Iron Age, and some from much later, even mediaeval times, but these later ones typically have a different character, they are more like boundary stones or grave markers and that sort of thing, and the practised eye can tell.

So I am at a loss to know how one could confine this matter of variations of shape within the domain of mathematical criteria and numerical discipline, rather than my intuitive bet. There are probably minds suited to the task, but they are being paid vast sums to work on financial derivatives and drone weapons, and the present day Guptas and Al Birunis are busy doing computer cryptography for GCHQ…. alas. But as the red haired woman would say, this is all a frivolous indulgence, in any case. 🙂

Let’s move on.

Here us one of the pair of so called outliers, near to Gors Fawr circle. (They are about average person height, very roughly). With the angles matched to horizon lines. This would be a comfortable and natural view for the human eye, as it meets the stone.

Gors Fawr - 1b


Here with background removed to see the profile more starkly.

Gors Fawr - 1b profile

So does this look like a ‘natural’ rock, or like one that has been shaped for a purpose ?

That’s a hard question, but possibly could be answered by very close technical inspection of the surface by someone with suitable experience and qualifications. Note the very precise angles which are easily measured.

Then, we have this, one of a pair, at Dan y Garn, about half  a mile or so distant.

Dan y Garn 1---

Same sized stone, same angles, the top tip obviously damaged.

So these very similar stones, just happened to get these angles and shapes, by way of chance and natural forces ? Or some human agency wanted 145 degrees, and knew how yo shape the rock surface to get it.

But the puzzle is very far from over, back to this one.

Gors Fawr - 1b

Contemplating this for long hours, it struck me, what of that ‘line up the left side’ so to speak, is saying, ‘walk this line across to where the angle meets the near horizon’.

And then, at the angle, it is saying ‘Then travel up this line, to the skyline’.

So, you have a hypothesis. And then you test it. This is the scientific method, put into practice.

Guess what there is, at that angle point, where it meets the near horizon ? EXACTLY at that point. A standing stone. It is a small one, recorded on all the official records as such.

I have photos. But cannot find. It was a memorable visit, the farmer’s wife, very splendid and Welsh took me and wonan to view the thing, of which she was quite proud, except that a JCB had just dug a huge ditch right by it, and one winced about the archaeology…. they keep their stock on the mountain and tend them from horseback, although they have ATVs as well, and they have an amazing wild lifestyle there…

A modest humble little thing. Not even MENTIONED at the Portal. But there are many more large stones all around.

And, it has the same clearly cut angled faces, and a strange knobby ‘nose’ on the top, which points up the hill toward the skyline. Well, actually, first, you come to this pair, they are quite famous, because it is a dramatic setting. They are big and impressive, with a very potent sense of presence.

Cwmgarw pair b

Here’s their page

But to jump back to Gors Fawr for a moment, this is the other outlier, I have so far neglected and a photo taken at the Equinox, so facing exact West at sunset, and you see that the Sun is sitting in the notch in the top of the stone. Then as the year proceeds, it will be moving down that slope to the left.

Untitled 4


This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

60 Responses to Meini Hirion. Some mystery about stones.

  1. marty says:

    Hi ulv. Very interesting. What would the scale of that stone be?

  2. ulvfugl says:

    Good question, marty ! Hahaha. Says he, posing as the classic lecturer. 🙂

    That one is probably 7 or 8 feet high. I used to know the measurement, because I measured it, and drew out all the geometry, projecting all the lines of the facets. I have that work somewhere. But I have forgotten.

  3. Tom says:

    The picture at the top of your blog, of mons angelorum, has a (natural) notch – that i just now noticed.

  4. wolfwitch says:

    I really like this new style Ulvfugl. I became a little bit obsessed with the stones about 20 odd years ago now. There are almost none in East Anglia so my stomping ground was in and around Wiltshire. I never really got to the stage of serious research but was more intent on just being there. This piece you posted is very interesting as it parallels some of the research that Paul Devereux has done concerning sightlines between West Kennet, Silbury and Windmill Hill. if I remember correctly he focused quite a bit on the “notch” just below the summit of silbury Hill which I believe aligns with the Windmill Hill horizon…
    Very enjoyable essay; thanks!

  5. ulvfugl says:

    Thanks Tom and wolfwitch.

    This mountain looks very different from every angle of the compass, it s intriguing that way.

    The top is very complex and has never been properly studied, it appears to have been fortified at some time, people have lived up there, there are traces of houses or huts, some square, some round. What time period is anyone’s guess. Nobody would want to live up there now because it is so wet, windy and exposed, and such a long hard walk to carry stuff.

    But it may have been inhabited when the climate was warmer, which is a possibility, or times may have been so desperate and dangerous that folk were willing to endure the hardship in exchange for some security.

    Yes, I met Deveraux once or twice in the pub when we lived in the same mid Wales village for a while. He’s done a lot of good books, and the Ley Hunter mag, etc. I think he’s a bit tame and civilised for me, and me a bit wild and fierce for him, ahahaha, but I have nothing against the fellow, good on him 🙂

    I think I’m done with all that stone stuff for the moment. I’ve only touched on what I;ve got and the work I did, there’s loads and loads more, But this is a taste.

    Reflecting upon it now, especially in the light of the suggestion that they might have been measuring the Earth. Well, it seems that they were up to some sort of complex surveying, or laying out some sort of intricate and measured ‘something’.

    I really have no idea. Others need to take up the challenge. I have no transport anymore and not the strength and stamina you need to go tramping over the hills, you need to take it seriously, you can EASILY perish from exposure on top of the Preselis, that’s not a joke, town people have no idea, this mountain I live on, has a different climate, every hundred feet that you walk upward, and you can be enjoying balmy weather here at the house, and if you forget take a coat and walk up the fields, it’s a different world, you know, hypothermia 🙂

    Anyway, I’m done for a while unless I remember some very important bit I missed, i think I conveyed the general idea, and anyone interested can pick it up for free.

  6. ulvfugl says:

    Sigh… I reread what I wrote, and I think is a bit garbled, and normally, it would be a draft and be edited and rewritten before publishing.

    But, you see, I would not have written it, would I,because I would have been fully occupied reading about all the horrors and posting the comments.

    So, more than anything, it’s a change in my habits… and I do need a break…

    And I was going to sleep, but look what I just found. Imo, this should convince, persuade, anyone, that there is some very serious important archaeology here, that EVERYONE has overlooked.

    This is my case, that I present. Everyone must try and find fault with it and see if it can withstand all criticism. That’s science. That’s what I want.

    To reiterate, what I said in the post above.

    This first stone carries information in its outline. It says ‘Follow the line of the left side across the moorland to where the angle meets the near horizon line’

    So, you walk that straight line, to test the hypothesis.


    And what you find, at that EXACT point, is another stone, with the SAME profile, the EXACT same angles.

    It is smaller. And it has a nob, on the top, which points up to the next stage, as the first stone directed, the skyline.


    I actually defy anyone alive to tell me that this is meaningless, or imaginary.

    What I want to know, is what the people who did this were really doing.

    Now I sleep. I have more pics of that stone. Nobody seems to have bothered to record it anywhere.

  7. Tom says:

    I know you have an ear to the world ulvfugl, listening for the crash as I am, but I’m very happy that you are pursuing other, more intriguing avenues in the short time we have left (as am I). Here’s that report you mentioned above:

    New Report Says Stonehenge Rocks Were Moved By Glaciers, Not Men

    Absolutely fascinating what you said in your last comment.

  8. ulvfugl says:

    Thanks Tom.
    Some people think that I am into woowoo and wacky nonsense, but that is not the case. I am a dedicated supporter of science, logic, and reason, in many respects. But my position is, that science, unattached to philosophy becomes irrational. So, my position us that philosophy is primary, must take precedence, must come first.

    But this is a very demanding stance, because philosophy is very difficult, even deciding what it is, where to begin, is very hard, so not surprising that second rate people avoid it.

    They should begin their science classes, ‘Why are we doing this ? To what end ? For what purpose or aim ?’

    Anyway. People have been doing archaeology in Britain for a hundred years, before that, it was more like ‘antiquarian studies’, going back centuries. How come I seem to be the first one to have noticed this ? When all those people have been doing MAz and PhDs and getting careers and salaries being professional and serious scientific students of the Neolithic and Bronze Age remains ?

    That’s an open question…. They’ll probably steal this and claim they knew all the time. Except that I bought all the books, back in the 1990’s and there was no trace anywhere, no mention by anyone, of anything like this. And I wrote up my findings, recorded everything, put it all onto a CD and then posted it to myself, as a registered recorded delivery, by Her Majesty’s Royal Mail, from the Post Office, in a sealed container, with documentation. Two copies in safe keeping. So, should it ever come to be a matter of dispute, as to who discovered this crap and when, I have an absolutely solid legal basis for a barrister to use to claim against any infringements of my rights. So go ahead and steal, and get rich, and then I shall enjoy sueing and taking the money off you. 🙂

    Not that I care. I’m giving it all away, to everyone. But not everyone is generous, Some people steal and exploit. Like Dan Brown and his grubby books, which stole the ideas from Henry Lincoln and Robert Bauval and others, and pretended they were Dan Brown’s own. Nasty grubby mean little thief.

    So what is the ‘this’ that has been found ? That is the interesting part, for me, and for everyone.

    I do not know. And, philosophically, I think it is best to keep two separate compartments, one for gathering the data, the evidence, and another separate, for speculating. Because as soon as you have some sort of theory, then it begins to cloud your judgement and influence what you see. I have made that mistake too often.

    You can go to the same stone, many many times, and NOT SEE what suddenly becomes obvious. How come you missed it, on all those other occasions ? This is very profound.

    I visited that pair and took photos about ten times, before I noticed that one had a notch in the top, and that you could sight it with the tip of the other, and that sightlins hit the skyline.

    Once you know that they can do that, then you start checking them all. But until you notice, you never did. And there’s many things like that. And you never know how many you are still not noticing. Like Rumdfeld’s ‘Unknown unknowns’ 🙂

    Having a salary and a PhD does not help with this, does it. You do not need to dig, or anything. It’s to do with observation, seeing, being open minded to what is in front of your nose.

    I think it is the same sort of blindness that stops scientists seeing that animals have feelings. Some will seriously argue that dogs do not have emotions, because that’s what the textbooks say.

    If you check it out, some woman, way way back, said that she could see designs, pictures, on the stones at Stonehenge. And she was certified insane. And all through last century millions of people visited and never saw them, and NOW they are obvious, loads of them, axe heads and whatnot, inscribed on the stones.

  9. ulvfugl says:

    The reason I mention the philosophy…

    I think it is quite hard to keep your head together, when studying strange areas, and if you are out on your own, as I have been, studying this stuff.

    The mainstream is easy. When you are into – what shall we call it, ‘esoterica’ ? – people think you are weird, and when you try to explain the subject matter, they go blank and have no idea what you are talking about…

    I mean, I’m speaking about Britain. USA is so much worse, it seems to be mass hysteria and on the brink of nervous breakdown, with every faction making it worse and trying to wind up greater panic, angst, hatred, anger to exploit.

    I know I go on and on about the Cartesian paradigm, and readers must be sick of hearing me rant about that topic, but I think it is important to understand how the past has caused some of the confusion that exists now. This soceity has ideas about ‘reality’, and they are very different, to say, those of Cambodians or Mongolians, because there are influences, from the Christian tradition, from people like Newton, from the Renaissance, from all sorts of sources, which contribute to how people think, how people understand ‘what we are’, what ‘being’ is. And for the most part, most people are never conscious of any of this.

    And what’s worse, a lot of it is very pernicious, not good for anyone, and it’s kept the way it is because certain vested interests get advantage from the ignorance.

    You know, Monbiot is always ranting about this. People think the lovely bare mountains of Scotland are ‘Nature’, and the photos get featured on office calendars, stags on moorland.

    But that’s a fucking WASTELAND, an ecological disaster zone, you might as well have a photo of an oil spill or a landfill site. The moors are owned by billionaires, who have no interest in the Scottish people or the Scottish wildlife, everything has been killed off centuries ago and the people forced to emigrate. That should all be FOREST. The ruthless capitalist maniacs overstocked the land with sheep and deer and destroyed all habitat, killed everything except grouse, so they could have an annual killing spree with their rich buddies, an orgy, and then get back to counting their money in the City.

    Those are the bastards that even Jesus could not abide, and threw off the temple steps. The pig fucker and his mates. But I digress…

    Anyway, we have a culture, in Britain, where people claim to be materialist, and to follow science, reason, rationality, and logic, That’s what a lot of people state, and they reject religion, the spiritual, the mystical, the occult, anything to do with superstition or folk wisdom. Because we are ‘modern’, we follow the values of the Enlightenment. Descartes, Newton, etc.

    And then, there’s the other major strand, the Christians, who follow the Protestant Anglican tradtion, And there are the Catholics, and various minorities, Baptists, Methodists, Quakers, Buddhists, Sihks, Moslems, Jews, and a whole bundle of people nowadays who follow New Agey hippy dippy mixtures of pagan and witchy mystical stuff.

    Some people talk of this country as ‘post religious’. I’m not any sort of expert as to how all this came about, multi culturalism and all that, but my impression is that some was haphazard and ‘just happened’ and some was deliberate policy, Isaiah Berlin, and his ideas about pluralistic liberal democracy, etc.

    But I think there was no policy re places like Cardiff docks, they just got settled by foreigners who got off ships, ever since the industrial revolution brought ship from every other port on the planet, so there were Chinese and Africans and Scandinavians who just got left in Cardiff, for a zillion different reasons, and had kids, just as if it was San Francisco or Lisbon, and so you get a cosmopolitan culture, nothing to do with government policy.

    What happens to ‘reality’, when you get this cross fertilisation of beliefs and world views and clash of cultures ? See, science is, or was, supposed to be universal, transcending all of the local religious-type of beliefs. Because you could measure stuff. If it was a foot long, it didn’t matter if it was a Catholic or a Protestant who held the tape measure, or where on the planet you stood, it was always going to be definitive and correct.

    That was supposed to be the beauty of kicking God out, and letting scientific empiricism and rationality prevail.

    But it has been a disaster. It’s brought total catastrophe. We are on the brink of extinction. Most people can’t even see it, they are so deluded and brainwashed and confused, but none the less, it is still the case.

    And that’s not to say, that some other course or choice would have been better, We might not even have got this far, we might have been in a worse mess. I’m not saying an ‘either/or’ am I.

    I’m unravelling the threads, in the hope people will see more clearly, how we arrived, why we think and see the way we do.

    Whatever, we are where we are…

    (Numbers of visits have zoomed up, so I assume people find this new format entertaining, thank you for your attention)

  10. ulvfugl says:

    Way back early last century Alfred Watkins wrote a book about ley lines, which is a charming and delightful work, and I don’t doubt for a moment that the British Isles was covered in a network of trackways, and that he could, anyone could, find traces of that.

    I think the earliest farmers arrive, peculiarly, on Orkney, don’t they, at a very early date, maybe 6000BC or something, but Mesolithic people had been around for 6000 years already, as the ice melted, when when the North Sea was still land and Wales was still joined to Ireland, and Ireland, Spain, extended much further out into the Atlantic, before sea levels rose.

    But the Mesolithic people were few in number. Did they make any permanent paths ?

    The first farmers surely did, the ones who made Stonehenge, because there was trade in stone axes, and the archaeologists found that people came from all over the British Isles to the Stonehenge gatherings, all the way from Orkney, which would have been a three month journey. So it was a gathering of all the tribes to kill and eat lots of pigs and have a massive party. Probably. 🙂 Like Glastonbury. Sort of. But a pilgrimage too.

    But after Watkins found his ley lines, then the lunatic horde got hold of the idea, and turned ley lines into something quite different, and now they are everywhere and nowhere, baby.

    Now, I am deeply into ‘non physical realities’, absolutely, and very seriously.

    And I am willing to entertain all kinds of spiritual notions, and accept that there is all sorts of things going on, about which we do not have a clue.

    But, on the other hand, if we ever want to get a clue, then, what we need to do, is to investigate in an intelligent and reasonable fashion, and get some results, make some progress, get some insights and deeper understanding, and that means rationality and science and logic.

    It’s no good merely insisting that there are ghosts, is it. What would be more helpful would be some sort of procedure and methodology that demonstrates their existence. Then we have science.

    That’s the problem re ley lines. They might be there. Or they might not. How do you convince or persuade the sceptical critic ?

    Ok ?

    So now we apply this sort of attitude to my work here, regarding these stones.

    You see, I began all of this, because of the controversy over the Stonehenge bluestones, where you have the eminent archaeologist Dr Michael Parker Pearson Person insisting ‘It’s a quarry, look’ and you have the eminent Dr Brian John, geomorphologist, insisting ‘It’a a natural formation, look’.

    Well, I have something too.

    What is it ?

  11. ulvfugl says:

    The stones could have been set in place any time, 3, 4, 5, 6000 years ago.

    The earliest Neolithic enclosure is nearby

    Assuming that they mark something, they could mark out a territorial boundary.
    We don’t know what the landscape was like at the time. Some periods the climare been milder, mediterranean, some periods colder, wetter. We don’t know if it was all thick woodland, or open, grazed by pastoralists.

    Once you begin to conjecture, to brain storm possibilities… well, the sky is the limit, perhaps it’s all to do with archaeoastronomy, they could predict the 18.6 year lunar cycle, that means they were not slouches when it comes to the heavenly bodies, how many generations of study do you need to do, to know that ?

    New Grange, Maes Howe, they were very very smart people.

    Or some of them were. Perhaps most were thick as planks, and there were a handful of magicians who knew how to fly ?

    Perhaps these stones mark the route to fetch the bluestones, or the route to the quarry, or the route to the axe factory, if you wanted to buy some axe heads ?

    Or perhaps they were measuring the circumference of the Earth. Or related to ceremonies at the stone circle at Gors Fawr, whatever went on there.

    These sorts of speculations can proliferate, as hypotheses. But they get us nowhere, they merely interfere with the real work of seeing what is actually THERE.

    What we need to do, is to look and to see. And to allow what is there to speak, to show itself. Without any preconceptions.

    Then we can have some hypothetical proposition, and test it, to see if it works.

    So after very much pondering, I came up with a hypothesis. Which was that if you view a stone against the background landscape, you can read the profile, it imparts information.

    So this is not very much different to, say, in an urban landscape, you see a signpost that says ‘Library. Half a mile. On the left.’ But frequently sign language is used. We all take this for granted, because we are fluent in the signs. It was a shock to me, going to Ireland, to see road signs that have different images to the UK ones.

    Anyway, those people would have been fluent in the sign language of stones. Just as in N. America, people slashed marks onto trees to show the trail.

    So, I tested that idea, and it worked. You then arrive at another stone, which does the same thing. Eureka.

    Except that there are zillions more stones all over the landscape where it does not seem to work. Groan.

    But there may be very good reasons, explanations. People have been putting up stones over thousands of years. Perhaps they put them up for completely different reasons.
    More recently, people have been pulling them up, and taking them away, and we have no idea how much is missing.

    I have one fragment. Stones can lead you to other stones, as in sign posts. But I also have other fragments, as in the rifle sighting stones where you are provided with a time of day, and a point on the horizon, and an annual calendar, and more, all on the same site.

    These may be related, being on the Preselis, or they may have nothing to do with one another, they may be thousands of years apart. Just as Stonehenge was built, changed, rebuilt, over a very long period, and there were many other henges, and all sorts going on at the same time, it is a very complicated picture, over an enormous time span.

    It says, on Megalithic Portal, that the two outliers are related to the Gors Fawr circle, and there may have been an avenue. But where do they get that info ? I don’t know.

    What was the purpose or point of circles like Gors Fawr. The stones are very small. Nothing at all like other circles with large pillars. Nobody has the slightest idea. It’s all wild guesses.

    You know, perhaps, if you were a traveller from afar, wanting to visit, an envoy, you came and sat inside that circle. It was neutral, safe, sacred, diplomatic immunity, then someone would come and smoke a pipe with you and talk about your business. If you were ok and they liked you, they took you to meet the boss.

    That’s where we will go next.

  12. ulvfugl says:

    Now I’m not putting this forward as ‘the theory’ or anything like that. This is just to sketch, in your own mind, your imagination, the idea I am attempting to convey, so it’s to help you follow what I’m wanting to explain…

    Say you arrived at Gors Fawr circle, some indeterminate time in the distant past.

    The stones are very small. You can’t sight anything, unless you lay flat prone on the ground.

    But nearby, there’s the pair of outliers. Most references relate them to the circle, but I have no idea what the evidence for that is, or if there is any. However, that pair are complex, you can sight all sorts of things. I’m sure I barely understand what they are about.

    You, the visitor, know how to read the language of stones, so one quick glance is all that it takes. See the pic

    That tells you to walk a couple of miles across the flat moorland, then bear right, up the hill to the skyline. Simple, no ? You could explain this to any schoolchild. Only archaeology professors with PhDs are unable to comprehend it.

    So you do that, as per the instructions.

    At the absolutely exact point indicated, you find this stone. Which is smaller, but has EXACTLY the same angle cut into it, Exactly the same profile as your first stone.
    And a very prominent and obvious pointer on the top.


    So then, you want to know where to go, to go up the hill. Well, you stand at 90 deg to the original side view, and the stone looks like this.


    And, although not clear in the photo, you can see the next pair of stones with the naked eye.

    These two. They again are very complex and interesting, with obvious pointers.



    So far, so good ?

  13. ulvfugl says:

    So you enter that portal, between that pair, whose presence is really powerful and needs to be felt to be believed (truly !) and then you go straight up the hill to the top of the Preselis.

    Then what ?

    Well, you can go right or left. There is a track all along the tops, and that must have been there as long as there have been people around. It’s an incredibly trippy place. You have no idea until you get there. Very very strange.

    Anyway, there’s this. Called Bedd Arthur, which means the grave (bed) of Arthur. This stone has the same profile as the other previous two, although the angle is not the same, and the stone is more a slab. But it looks obviously shaped.


    This is not really a circle. It’s not clear what it is. I refer you to Meg Port and Mod Ant

    Is this where you are meant to arrive ? I have no idea. We should just be collecting the data. As much data as possible. Let it speak for itself.

    I found this, which is vaguely relevant, but as it says, it’s missing the mechanical aspect.

  14. ulvfugl says:

    So those two magnificent stones are called, in Welsh, the Stones of the Sons of Arthur, and then we have Arthur’s Grave up on the top.

    So we need to do a bit of mental digging, re all this Arthur crap, because none of this stuff has anything to do with Arthur.

    These artefacts are from the stone and bronze ages, which ended, if I’m not wrong, in Britain, roughly around 800 BC. when iron weapons and tools were introduced.

    Iron technology is very different, for one thing, the ore was much more abundant and easily obtained, and a blacksmith can reforge iron and make new implements from say, old horseshoes, make nails, keep sharpening and grinding sword edges, all sorts of qualities that the bronze stuff did not have.

    But it seems, from what little I know, the whole country changed, every hilltop got fortified, it was much more hostile and nasty.

    And then the Romans came, around BC, and then went, around 4oo AD.

    And that’s your time of Arthur. Because the people left were Romano-British, who spoke a sort of Welsh-ish. And without Rome, the place got invaded by the Germanics. The Anglo-Saxons. And Arthur was the leader, semi-real, semi-mythical, maybe a composite of several leaders, who fought against the invaders, and eventually lost. Except for some areas, Wales, Scotland, Cornwall, Cumbria, stayed more Celtic.

    So, ever since those times, in the mediaeval and Elizabethan and Victorian periods, ever since, when people have tried to figure out what all this ancient crap that’s all over the place is, they only knew a few possibilities. The bible or Arthur. Or maybe the Trojans.

    Because nobody knew anything much at all about what happened prior to the Romans, the Iron Age.

    But as we know from that Mold Gold Cape and the Great Orme Copper Mine, there was a lot going on, there was astounding wealth, huge trade, lots of travel. Three or four thousand years, and we know almost nothing about the people, not the language, not their religion, not how they lived, the Irish tales are much better, so they give some clues, because they had no Romans. Their stories carried on until the Christians arrived.

    So then we can see, that some of the motifs that are in the ancient Irish stories, are also in the ancient Welsh stories, and the names get changed, to fit the Arthurian tradition.

    So what you have to do, is sort of like reverse engineering computer code, working backwards.

  15. ogardener says:

    Hey Brother,

    I do not know enough about the climate in your general area but I would like to know if those vertical stones are sitting on some type of foundation, bedrock or ledge in order to remain as planted (plumb?) all these years. In my neck of the woods footings are generally placed four feet (minimum) below finish grade elevation in order to prevent frost heaving.

    Still in moderate drought here with record breaking high temperatures. In my twenty seven years at this place I have never seen anything like it.

  16. marty says:

    So you enter that portal, between that pair, whose presence is really powerful and needs to be felt to be believed (truly !) and then you go straight up the hill to the top of the Preselis.

    Then what ?

    Well, you can go right or left. There is a track all along the tops, and that must have been there as long as there have been people around. It’s an incredibly trippy place. You have no idea until you get there. Very very strange.

    Maybe a clue as to what the stones are there for. Possibly guide posts. Possibly to enhance that feeling you get. Our ancient ancestors, I believe, had a different kind of knowledge. More intuitive… But what the hell do I know. I’m just a lowly maintenance man. 🙂

  17. ulvfugl says:

    Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

    When I was on top form, years ago, I could have answered, re how the stones were set into the ground, because there have been a few proper careful excavations with recorded details, and I have those around the place somewhere. But memory fails me for the moment. I’ll get back to you when I come across good info. They dug a pit, lined it, put in the stone and then added packing stones, as far as I recall.

    The biggest in Britain is a monster, at Rudston. That must go down quite deep to have stayed up.

    But there are taller in Brittany,

    And then there’s that crazy one, Baalbek, Lebanon, also called Heliopolis, so the temple of Baal, or Helios, the Sun, where there is one on the ground that’s estimated to weigh, I think, 2000 tons, and nobody had any equipment ot means of lifting or moving anything close to that size in antiquity, which was one reason Graham Hancock began think of lost civilisations, etc.

    There’s stuff like that in South America, nobody has a clue how it was done, also in Egypt.

    @ marty

    Well, when you approach that pair, they are very imposing, and if they were an entry, you sort of feel, like this is the gateway to the Big Man’s House, sort of thing, some important entrance.

    I have pondered whether there’d be a brush fence on either side, like African camps, and it was an entry to a village type of thing, fairly mundane, and on the other hand, what if the place was their version of CERN, and they had bronze mirrors on these stones, and they’d catch a flash of sunlight and send it from one mirror to the next, round and round the Preselis, to measure the speed of light, because they could measure the rotation of the planet simultaneously, as the Sun was going down…. 🙂

  18. marty says:

    As far as not relating to Aurthur. Possibly… But possibly the folks in Aurthurian times were still linked to their ancient relatives in some way. Maybe a few witches or shamans floating around. And the normal folk may have still followed those old ways. Well as you know ulv, the church combined with aristocracy would want to convert those ordinary folks to control them. Maybe they just said it was Aurthur that was buried there instead of some older diety. And if they didn’t go along, well, you get the picture.

  19. ulvfugl says:

    Zillions of interesting pics here. He says it’s all going to be new and improved but if it was, I do not know where, and it says the last update us 2009

  20. marty says:

    My timelines may be off a bit. Perhaps since you live there you might have a better idea about what went on way back then.

  21. ulvfugl says:

    @ marty

    The people who were actually fighting under the leader called Arthur, as far as I can tell, were warriors, who had just had 400 years or so, of being ruled from Rome.

    So the land was covered in Roman type villas and towns and they had Roman type forts and amphitheatres for gladiators to fight, and much of the same culture as the rest of the Roman Empire. It was all administered from London, and the people were had been subdued by force centuries earlier. They were fairly quiet and settled.

    But when that Empire collapsed, imploded, the Legions all left. So there was no longer any foreign rule, and the country was in disorder, and the Germanic people, Jutes from Jutland, Danes, Angles, Saxons, saw a chance to colonise. I expect there was pressure where there were, from over population, whatever, to move.

    So they arrived and settled, and the Romano-British tried to repel them, for a long time, endless battles. This is recorded in some of the Welsh legends, and elsewhere.

    So there are stories, involving Merlin and so on, to do with that struggle. The Anglo Saxons won most of what they wanted. They got all the best land, the flat fertile farmland of England (Angle Land) and the Romano British got pushed into the mountains, and became the present day Welsh. Welsh language is still really Romano British, there are a lot of Latin words, left over from the Romans.

    All that was over and done, and the place got converted to Christianity and then the Vikings began arriving, they made a big impact in some areas, and then 1066, the Normans conquered the whole lot.

    You then have the so called Arthurian Cycle spreading across Europe, as the stories grew and mutated. They never really stopped, even now. An amazing phenomenon.

    From our perspective now, 2015, we can look back and try to understand this, the past, in a variety of ways. I mean, it does not exist, it has all vanished forever. All we have are stories. I just told you a story.

    But we know that something happened. There are traces. All sorts of left over signs, marks, remnants, bits of stories.

    You yourself just made up a fragment about a deity, a burial, and so on. These stories are contemporary, they exist in our heads now. The relationship between these stories and what actually occurred is profoundly problematic. It’s always changing.

    How can that be ? If there was only one past, how can our view of it be different every few years ? But it is. Just read the history books, the scholarly records, of how they see Stonehenge. The army thought about blowing it up in the 1920a, because it might be an obstacle to their early aircraft, before that, the conventional wisdom, it was a Druid Temple. Etc, etc.

    We have ‘scientific archaeology’ which fixes radio carbon dates. So that’s one kind of story. That says that these stones are from the Stone and Bronze Ages, which ended about 1500 years before Arthur’s time.

    What happened during all those thousands of years previously ? Pre the Romans and the Uron Age, pre c. 800 BC ?

    The Greeks and Romans had writing, but their early records are vague, Homer and Hesiod. The Irish stuff was passed down orally, so it got a bit garbled, and then the Christians give us a censored version.

    And then there’s the physical evidence, like the stones, and the rock art, this stuff, which is probably linked in some way to the stones.


  22. ulvfugl says:

    Nature and Origin of the Lebor Gabála Érenn narratives

    The LGE is one of the primary sources of information about the earliest period of Irish mythology, the so-called Mythological Cycle. All of the information in this guide has been abstracted from the Lebor Gabála Érenn – The Book of the Taking of Ireland Parts I-V, R.A.S. Macalister, D.Litt., Irish Texts Society, 1939-1954, reprinted 1993-1995. In general, Macalister provides three redactions of the text (essentially, R1 is from the Book of Leinster, R2 from the Stowe D Collection, and R3 from the Book of Ballymote) and this document provides a composite overview where greater weight has been given to the ‘orthodox’ or dominant versions. Alternative accounts or variant details are included only when they are deemed interesting or important to the larger context.

  23. ulvfugl says:

    As I said, the relationship between the story we have in our head (now, 2015, whenever) and what actually happened (last week, 300 years ago, 3000 years ago) is profoundly problematic.

    That is why philosophy is so important and should take priority. People do not do this !
    Grrrrrr 🙂

    When I was a kid I was taught the history of Britain. It all started when Julius Caesar discovered Britain and then conquered Britain and then Britain became part of the Roman Empire, and the story was told as if that was all certain, established incontrovertible fact. One thing lead to another, a list of Kings and Qieens and battles, and then the glorious WW2 and the nazis were defeated and WE were the best ever.

    And behind all that was the authority and scholarship of Oxbridge where the old Latin and Greek texts had been translated, so it must be right. Prior to Caesar, there were some people here, it was accepted, but they were something like Australian Aborigines, naked and painted themselves blue, with woad, so they were savages, and not really worthy of serious consideration.

    So, what about Stonehenge ? Well, as I mentioned, the army seriously considered erasing it, as it was a nuisance for their exercises. Not many people paid it any heed. Nor any of the other prehistoric stufT

    You know, never a mention of that Mold Gold Cape from 3000 BC….

    But now, the story has all changed. I mean, it takes time. Over the last century, it took 80 years for Alfred Wegener’s Continental Drift Theory to be accepted by the geologists. You just have to wait for generations to die and text books to get rewritten, after the theory has been accepted by the smartest and brightest, and then there’s still a long lag, a residual mass in the popular media and less well educated, where they never really grasp any of it. Look at quantum physics and behaviourism and many other schools of thought that have risen and fallen over the last century, for example. Genesis versus Darwin.

    So I put the link above, to the mythical history of Ireland. At one time, a couple or three centuries back, everyone believed stuff like that was true and correct, they believed the Bible, they believed Giraldus Cambrensis, they believed Julius Caesar, because that was all they had. Those stories.

    But then we got science, and more scientific approaches to the past, and that provides rival stories. But it is still only stories. It’s like a detective gathering up clues and then presenting a case in court, an account of what happened at the crime scene. It might be all wrong. Evidence can be extremely ambiguous.

    However, over the course of recent decades, we now have a much more detailed and sophisticated picture of ‘what happened’ prior to the Romans. Relying on Julius Caesar and his like is seen to be a bit like relying on someone like Bush, for a record of the Iraq War. Mission accomplished.

    Lasr century the scientific wing went to the opposite extreme, and rejected all the myths, as nonsense. But then Schliemann read the Greek myths of the Trojan war, and went and found Troy and dug it up, and found vast treasures and whatnot. So the pendulum swung back, there is some ‘truth’ in the some ‘myths’.

    So now we have ‘myths’, as stories, and scientific investigations, also as stories.

    We can use both, and then adjust the stories we have, now, in our heads, improve them, enrich them, hope they might have a more accurate relationship with ‘what happened’.

    But there is one more thing, isn’t there. People can contest the stories. Like lawyers in a court, it is never ending. And that is how science is meant to proceed. You propose your hypothesis. You test it. If it seems to stand up, it then gets accepted and becomes a theory. But, if some other new theory comes along, which explains the evidence even better, and clarifies matters in a more elegant and convincing fashion, then that will replace the old theory.

    This is all very difficult, when all we have are stories, because everything rests upon interpretation. (This is called hermeneutics). One person says it means this, the other person insists it does not, it means that. So then we are stuck.

    I think it is generally agreed, among philosophers and scholars, that this is an intractable problem and there is no resolution. You can favour the one guy, because he has more experience or authority, but that does not really prove him or her correct, any more than that the other guy having brown hair means they are wrong. It’s arbitrary.

    What is required is proper old fashioned empirical science. Something substantial and material that can be measured. Then the argument can be won and lost. Because everyone is convinced.

    Sorry for this lengthy excursion, I now come to my point.

    ‘Ladies and gentlemen of the jury… ‘ hahaha… no,whoops, wrong script…

    Look what I have here. We do not need to speculate about wild ideas concerning aliens or lost civilisations or ley lines or ANY kinds of stories. And that is because there is actual solid hard – rock solid hard – evidence, that any person at all, can MEASURE.

    Just as Isaac Newton demonstrated, with his glass prism, that he could break up a ray of white light into a spectrum, and thus explain the working of the rainbow. Something that can be measured, quantified, examined, is far more helpful than merely putting forward a story.

    So, please, examine the evidence. I am repeating myself, But here it is.

    This is one of those things that it seems nobody has ever seen, but once you see it, you cannot ever ‘not see’ it. 🙂 So I am showing it to the world here… Look !


    That is one of the Gors Fawr Circle outliers.

    Read the profile of the stone, it says, walk the yellow arrow, and at that yellow dot, you find this one (which I have flipped horizontally for easier comparison with pic below) the same profile and angle.


    I am grateful to ogardener, for giving me this thought. I did say it is much smaller. But there is the possibility that it has tipped forward from its original vertical position,and also sunk, or become more deeply buried. Perhaps it is the same size as the other two but that would need some digging to discover.

    Then in this pic, on the right, the Gors Fawr outlier again, and on the left, one of another pair, approx half a mile distant, at Dan u Garn. The top is obviously eroded, but otherwise, I think we can agree, they are a match.


    Line between Gors Fawr and Dan y Garn ??? I do not know. I must have investigated that ?
    I forget.
    Perhaps there are trees, houses, in the way ?

  24. ulvfugl says:

    I think this is not restricted to Wales, or Preseli, there are stones in other areas with similar profiles, someone sent me this from Scotland.


  25. ulvfugl says:

    Rummaging in the dark dank cellars, dusty ancient folders, ‘Aha !’ Found this…


  26. ulvfugl says:

    If it is to be a credible scientific hypothesis – not that I have really stated such, in any formal sense, as yet – then it should have some predictive power.

    It should be possible to state the principles and then ‘so, if that is correct, then, this is what we might expect to find…’ Logical inference.

    If you remember the very first stone, across the valley from my home. If you fit the top to the peak of the mountain, so that it fits, you than have exact North. And the stone has a stepped shoulder. Could that mean north, in the same sense as we put the sign N on a map ? Well, it might.


    So, looking at other stones, with a compass, aligned exact North, here’s one of a pair, very near to Trefach, at Tafarn y Bwlch. Exact north.


    So sometimes this hypothesis seems to work, But not in all cases, and I cannot yet suggest why.

    It could be like E for Easr, or it could be a generic, like ‘This is the way to go’ or ‘This is the correct viewing face’ or something else. It is quite a common feature, many stones have it, some large, some small, and so surely not such a hard problem to crack, because all that it needs is a large sample size, and then see what correlates,

    Something must correlate. Unless the whole notion is fanciful and the stones are merely random shapes. I don’t think that is a tenable position, but it is one that the sceptic has to take. I have to be my own critic here, and attempt to destroy my own wonderful theories. As the writer Faulkner said, to be good, means killing your darlings. Cruel but true.

    You see, once you begin aligning stuff, by eye, as I did with the one with the notch, like a rifle, then you soon discover that every damn boulder in the entire landscape can be sighted with some other rock, and some other feature, and this way lies complete madness.
    It’s like the ley lines.

    If you pick two points on a map of England, and join them with a line, it is absolutely 100% guaranteed that you will hit some other third site in between, and then you have ‘discovered’ a ley line. Only that you have not. It’s just that the place has has been densely inhabited for thousands of years, there are no empty spaces, wherever you stick a pin, there will be a mound or a gravestone or a church or a battlefield or something that will be significant. That sort of ley line is bollocks, If you do it in Siberia, or Antarctica, you don’t find them.

    So we definitely need some sort of rational boundary to contain and restrain this research so that it actually provides a result that produces insight.

  27. ulvfugl says:

    Another example, the eastern ‘Son of Arthur’, aka Cwm Garw pair, has the angle step.


  28. ulvfugl says:

    Here is another, named Fagwyr Fran, almost identical step


  29. ulvfugl says:

    Here is one called Trellwyn. The general shape is very similar to the very first one, here across the valley, Trefach, and if you follow rules, so to speak, trying to ignore the farm building, the top aligns with a cairn on the skyline and gives you north, the stone has the same stepped shoulder, and also has a sort of inset right angle triangle, which is interesting.


  30. ulvfugl says:

    There are many more in this area. This one, if you extended the two side lines over the horizon, they would meet at Fagwyr Fran, (depicted above), on the other side of the hill.


    I think that to someone who understood how to read the stones, that sort of information might be as obvious and effortless as when we see, say, a Bus Stop.

Comments are closed.